carried out, but is being nullified by the details of the inspection. In other words, that cattle that are really stockers or store cattle, and capable of being fed for weeks and months with great improvement, are placed in the category of fat cattle when they arrive here, and are not even allowed to be taken a few hundred yards to another abattoir, but are slaughtered on the docks. They are slaughtered under the Animal Diseases Act (though they are not diseased) with great detriment to the reputation of Canadian cattle. Further, these animals, which we contend are not fat, are slaughtered, and their carcases must be sold. Canadian meat of an inferior quality is thus placed on the market. It is not fed up to the point of superiority of which it is capable, and Canadian beef is put down as an inferior article because the cattle are called fat by an inspector and slaughtered, that neither we in Canada nor you in Great Britain would under any other circumstances think of slaughtering for the market.

It is not out of place for me to give a detail or two. Several head of cattle were sent over here a few days ago by the Canadian Government as store cattle, cattle that in our country would be considered stockers, cattle that I have no hesitation in saying your farmers would call stockers if they owned them, and would feed them at least until the Christmas trade arrived. There were some sixty of these. They were all eventually put down as fat cattle and slaughtered, showing a distinct conflict of opinion between our experts in Canada and the inspectors here. I could give other details.

Another question has been raised which I do not think was ever in the mind of the British Government and that is, inspectors have undertaken to say not only that cattle are too fat, but that others are too poor. Surely that was not the intention that the inspector was to classify an animal as one that should not be sold to a farmer to fatten if he wanted to buy it. There was in one shipment of cattle carried recently quite a number of exceptionally poor cattle. I had hoped to have had the photographs of them here to-day, but they have not arrived. These cattle were not considered too fat. They were considered too poor and not of the proper class of cattle for the British farmer to fatten. That surely is. an intervention with trade not contemplated in the Act. To my mind under that statute the inspector would have just as much right to inspect a horse of mine that I was selling over here and to say it was not fit for the market. The idea and the whole intention of the Act was that cattle should come over here to be fatted, and the class of animal would be a thing between the farmer here and the seller in Canada. I only mention that to show to what extent the inspection goes.

I do not know that I need go into any more details. We are thoroughly disappointed. I could read much stronger language than I would think proper to use, but we feel that not only are our farmers disappointed after being shut out of the market for thirty years on account of diseases which did not exist, but that the agreement made is being disregarded. The door opened, cattle

were coming in freely, and were being sold and purchased rapidly by the farmers here for fattening, but all at once, the door is in a measure closed. Now the shutting out of these fat cattle or of cattle that are called fat by inspectors, is of far greater moment than it may appear. It has this result-that the raisers and stockbreeders in Canada are beginning to think that there is no use in endeavouring to take advantage any more of this market, because they do not know whether an animal will be declared fat when it gets over here or not, and the slaughter of all these animals so declared to be fat animals, but which we contend are not, has always been done not only with loss to the immediate interest, but to the detriment of the good name of Canada and the beef which our best cattle produce.

A suggestion was made by the Minister of Agriculture as to an arrangement for the interchange of pedigree stock. Possibly it would be of some benefit, but it will not cure the situation as to the exclusion of our good grade stock which might be capable of breeding. But the immediate trouble, and the greatest disappointment we in Canada have, is the fact that cattle we send over as we believe under the statute are classified so as to nullify much of the good that should come to our trade under the statute.

Alleged Discrimination between Dominions.

Then we cannot see why we should be used differently from any other Dominion. We would not at all say that any other Dominion should be deprived of anything it has on our account. Not at all. But we believe if trade is to be Imperial the benefits must be reciprocal. It is a fact so I am informed, and is publicly stated in our Press, in an interview with the Montreal Gazette (perhaps one of the sanest newspapers in the British Empire) that Canada's cattle do not receive the same treatment as at least one other Dominion in that their cattle after certain days of quarantine in England are allowed to be sold anywhere either as stocker or fat cattle. All those restrictions are put against our trade. As I said in the first place I am not sure this should be dealt with at the Conference as it is a matter between the Canadian Government and the British Government.

I have endeavoured to place our side of the case as dispassionately as possible before the Conference. We think the spirit of the Act is being nullified by the system of inspection, and that the advantages which were intended to be had for Imperial trade are not being experienced; and as a result of it all, the Canadian farmer feels greatly aggrieved and greatly disappointed in that he is not getting what he was assured he was to get in the way of freedom of entry for his cattle into the British market.

Suggestion of Disease in Australian Cattle repudiated.

Mr. Bruce: Sir Philip, I have very little to say with regard to this matter. It is one which primarily concerns Canada. There is one point, however, to which I wish to draw attention

particularly in view of the last few words that Mr. Graham uttered. He said he did not see why Canada should be treated differently from other Dominions. It is suggested that, while there may be some questions upon which there is a difference of opinion, Canada. is being treated very advantageously as against any other Dominion at the present moment. Really that is the only point that I want to raise, and I do want to utter a protest with regard to it. Under the Diseases of Animals Act, 1896, our cattle are excluded from this country, and there is an implied suggestion that there is some disease in Australian cattle. That I absolutely repudiate, and say that there are no possible grounds for any such suggestion. I appreciate all that Sir Robert said at the beginning as to the naming of Acts and so on, but none the less the position is one which I want to utter a protest against.

Australian Attitude on General Question.

As to the actual question under discussion, we have nothing to say about it. It is true that it is not a trade with which we are actually concerned, but we certainly do want to maintain the position which we have taken up very definitely indeed with regard to our own country, that we have a perfect right to take whatever action we consider necessary in the interests of our own particular producers. We take a very definite stand on that, that nobody is entitled to dictate to us what we shall do for the protection of the people who are our own particular producers. Taking that view, we certainly could not think of attempting to force any other Government to take any action which was against the interests of their own producers. I think we accept that as a fundamental principle' that we are prepared to adhere to, and naturally we could not express any views which could be interpreted as trying to force somebody else to do what we are not prepared to do ourselves.

Mr. Massey: I hardly think that New Zealand is very seriously concerned in the shipment of livestock from that country to Great Britain. I do not think anything of the sort is possible; the voyage is too long. Of course, in saying that it is well to admit that stud stock are occasionally carried from England to New Zealand and a few the other way. Every year a certain number of horses and cattle are shipped, and I suppose that will continue.

Sir Robert Sanders: The trade in horses is prefectly free.

Mr. Massey: I am glad to hear that.

The Question of Disease.

I just want to emphasise the point which has been referred to by the Prime Minister of Australia. So far as disease is concerned, we have practically none. I want to qualify that by saying that I believe we have some tuberculosis in our cattle just as it is found in every other country in the world. There is no country that I know of free from tuberculosis, but in stock we have no such thing

as foot and mouth disease, and I know you have had it here pretty often. We have no anthrax; I have heard of that in the United Kingdom. I am glad to think that measures have been taken to stamp them both out. So far as I know, neither of those diseases. is prevalent in England at present.

The Admission of Animals for the Empire Exhibition.

Horses are not affected by what is proposed, but I want to raise this point. You have a big exhibition coming on here next year, which I hope will be a tremendous success, and, if so, I believe it will do every country in the Empire a great deal of good. What are you going to do with regard to stock coming over for that exhibition?

Sir Robert Sanders: There is a clause in the Act of 1896 by which the Board may make such orders as they think fit for allowing the importation of foreign animals for exhibition purposes.

Mr. Massey: Will there be permission to dispose of them in this country? I may say I was consulted about this before I left New Zealand, and the opinion I expressed was simply that I hardly thought either cattle or horses would be sent to England for exhibition purposes. The expense would be too great. New

Zealand is one of the countries where stud stock does not deteriorate. I believe we could, with advantage, ship you some. specimens of sheep that would be an object lesson to Britain. I am speaking of the breed peculiar to New Zealand-Corridales. They have spread very rapidly all over the Dominion, and they are useful both for mutton and for wool. I should like to know something definite about it. I do not say our people do not want to send horses. I only say that, in my opinion, it would not be worth while. You have had very good horses imported from New Zealand before to-day. I would like to know what is going to be done definitely with regard to the animals coming from overseas for the Exhibition, whether they would be allowed to be disposed of here, because it would be of no use bringing stock here and intending to take them back. Very few people could stand the expense, and I would not be inclined to encourage it.

Sir Robert Sanders: They would be in very small numbers.

The Chairman: The Exhibition would not hold a great lot of them.

Mr. Massey: I presume each country finds room for its own exhibits.

Duke of Devonshire: I am not speaking as Colonial Secretary now, but as connected with the British Empire Exhibition. If you send the stock and it is allowed to come by the sanitary and local authorities of Wembley, who may have to be consulted in the matter, I will undertake to say that you will be able to get rid of it to the best advantage you can.

Mr. Massey: That is something definite, and I am very glad to get that. It would not be satisfactory if I could not tell New Zealand something definite when I go back.

The Beef Market.

There is another point. I am raising this in the interests of British agriculturists as well as my fellow citizens. If they want to benefit themselves let them look at the fact that South America is gradually taking possession of the whole beef market in Britain. That is the position to-day. I can only speak from memory, but I believe that last year 5 million quarters of beef came into this country from South America, and I know perfectly well that the British farmer cannot produce fat stock-I am speaking of cattle— anything like so cheaply as the man in the Argentine can, or one of the other States there, and send it to England. I am interested, of course, as representing a great producing country, but I think the interests of the British agriculturists come even before those of the New Zealand farmer, and are very much more seriously affected. I am not worrying about lamb and mutton. We can beat them in lamb and mutton every time, but we simply cannot stand up to them with beef. I have advised New Zealanders to drop the shipment of beef and go in for something else. I do not know that I have anything more to say. I am very glad to have this statement from the Duke of Devonshire with regard to the exhibition of stock which New Zealand is inclined to send.

South Africa interested in Exchange of Pedigree Stock.

Mr. Burton: This seems to me to be really a matter for settlement between the Dominion concerned and the British Government rather than for this Conference. I have nothing to say about that. but I should just like to say that I welcome the statement made by Sir Robert Sanders with regard to the promise to facilitate this exchange of pedigree stock. As far as I am aware that would be of considerable value to South Africa, and I look at it from that point of view.

Mr. Riordan: As the statement made by Sir Robert Sanders in no way affects the interests of the Irish cattle trade, I shall not delay the Conference with any further remarks.

Mr. Innes: I have nothing to say. India has no grievance in this matter, and I cannot comment in any way on the difference of opinion between His Majesty's Government and the Dominion of Canada.

Removal of Embargo and Increase in Canadian Preferences.

Mr. Mackenzie King: In the first place, I would like to mention again what I said at the opening meeting, that we appreciated in Canada the difficulties with which the British Government was confronted in this matter, and appreciated sincerely the action of the Government in seeing that the embargo was removed, giving