Quite possibly a still better rating standard might be devised for engineers. No engineering student should receive an engineering degree unless the average of his ratings by instructors reaches a high prescribed standard.

12. The Four-Quarter Plan.—The writer favors organizing all college and university work on the four-"quarter" plan, extending throughout practically the entire year and repeating essential courses every six months.

13. Outside Engineering Practice for Engineering Students. -The writer favors requiring each engineering student to complete at least nine months of actual engineering practice outside the college before receiving an engineering degree. Such work should be under outside employers but with some general inspection by the engineering college. The four-quarter plan of operation would enable this requirement to be met within the four years now required for graduation.

14. The Engineering Problem Method of Instruction.-The writer favors trying out the engineering problem method of instruction on a limited scale at first, as an engineering education research.

At the Iowa State College it is proposed to start such work next fall to the extent of 1 credit hour per week in the freshman year in all courses (three actual hours per week by each student with the instructor) and to extend this to the sophomore year if it proves successful.

A specialist will be in general charge, under whom a representative from each engineering department will give part time to the work.

The engineering problem instructors of this group are to be of the grade of associate professors at least, and, when reinforced for this purpose by representatives of the mathematics, chemistry and physics faculties are to constitute a "liaison group" for the coördination of all fundamental and engineering technique instruction, whether by science or by engineer faculties.

DISCUSSION.

F. W. McNair: Mr. President, I regret that we have not more time to discuss this paper. It is a very interesting one, one full of suggestions. There are just two things that I want to say about it.

One is I was very much interested as Dean Marston developed his suggestions to recognize many of them as familiar in discussion to a period of this Society dating back something like ten years I guess I have not stopped to count it up exactly and to see how some of the things we were very, very much interested in discussing then are brought up by him as yet important things.

And then I want to say just a word about the .S. A. T. C., which, judging by some of the things that have been said, one would think was an odoriferous memory. I want to testify in one case, namely that of the institution with which I am connected, I am very well satisfied that had the war continued a year longer than it did, the work would have been made a success. The institution was fortunate in having assigned as commandant of the post an officer who had had college work, and he appreciated very quickly many of the problems from the teacher's side.

Then too the institution I think was fortunate in having a faculty that were very, very anxious to serve in the war and were very anxious to coöperate with the military people in any possible way.

The result was a minimum of friction, and I think a maximum of good work for the time the organization lasted, and certainly a maximum of promise of what would have occurred in the course of a year.

J. P. J. Williams: Mr. President, there are two points I would like to suggest directly in line with what Dean Marston has brought out.

The first is the matter of experienced teachers and how to get the required compensation for experienced teachers and the disadvantage of using cheap instructors. The solution

which occurs to me, if you cannot get the added amount from the executive authorities, is that perhaps the application of the "case" method itself in its working out would make possible the elimination of some of the cheaper instructors and the concentration on high priced men, which means of course using the salary now given instructors to pay the high priced man. Why not work the student, instead of working the teacher or the instructor?

I also believe there should be courses in what you might call "self-management"; that is, resulting from the experience in the war you can easily see the advantage of a course which would teach men how to handle themselves. Give them physical training, physical education, mental ability to analyze; and I would follow it right through to moral development. Self-management after all, if you stop to think of it, is what is needed in practical life. We must get men who are able to handle their bodies, to really get the results that they are desiring to get when they have a practical situation placed before them. And such a course would be easily used in those three directions, as a freshman course, to teach the students how to think, how to study, how to actually make the best use of their time in the college, and in that way be sure that what time is spent by the student in these forty-eight hours or more which you are requiring, will really be productive and effective.

And then I would also like to see credit given for student activities.

The call from the world, the call from practical life is for men of character. Character is developed by association with each other. Why not give credit to the social activities, the student activities in engineering societies, remembering that the Development Committee of the American Society of Civil Engineers and probably of all the engineering societies is advocating student sections in the colleges. Those student sections should be given college credit; and in these student sections can be developed the ability of our young men to

present papers, to discuss them from the floor, to really be: come well fitted for leadership in the future.

Dean Taylor: We might as well get down to brass tacks in this thing. The most important thing in this report is the question of salary. Let us face it and be honest about it. The question is how to get it. Engineers who are graduates of institutions are now superintending bricklayers and carpenters at half the salary the bricklayer is getting. All over the country the movement has taken place in regard to teachers' salaries. Some teachers down in Texas practically agreed to walk out unless something was done. And the City Board met and got together and the citizens got together and agreed on backing a twenty-five per cent. increase for the teachers in the city of Dallas. We were told in Texas that we would probably get a ten per cent. increase, but we realize that food supplies have gone up about one hundred per cent.

Now, there are many vital, things in Dean Marston's remarks, but this is absolutely the most vital, because if something is not done, the young men that we may treat as the seed corn of the teaching profession in engineering will go into other lines of cativity.

A. H. Fuller: Mr. Chairman, I would like to call attention to a portion of Mr. Smith's discussion, "The effect of the war on engineering education," in which he points out that one advantage is that it cleared the atmosphere in a way never cleared before, and probably never cleared before for making radical and decided changes should be made.

George W. Case: Mr. President, it seems to me that the severe criticism brought out in the paper, that school faculties are directing against themselves for their reputed failure in the S. A. T. C. work of last fall, emphasizes a matter worthy of discussion.

From what we have heard and experienced in regard to the S. A. T. C. work, we are justified in assuming that some schools were quite successful in handling this work and others were quite the opposite. This is as might have been expected.

University faculties in this country have not had experience in working with our army organizations. The two organizations have had no opportunity to coöperate on a job. Therefore, the first time they try, one need not expect full success to crown the effort. There is really no reason for this severe criticism.

In my mind our experience with the S. A. T. C. work emphasizes the fact that if educational work during normal times is going to be as successful as the student and everyone else has a right to expect, members of school faculties must learn to give each other the fullest coöperation.

O. M. Leland: Mr. Chairman, I think one of the great effects of the war that has shown itself in education has been the number of schools that have been established in connection with war work. Two years devoted to war so far as this country is concerned have done a very great deal educationally, and new methods have been evolved, and the schools have been adapted to all comers without regard to their qualifications in many cases. I think the result is going to be that there will be a great stimulus in engineering schools, as pointed out by Dean Marston, in that a great many men who are now perhaps a little too old to undertake the usual entrance requirements of engineering schools will go after special courses. Their interest has been aroused in engineering, perhaps through their attendance at trade schools or engineering schools in the Army.

One of the things that came to my attention most prominently in the war service was the fact that you can accomplish almost anything with almost any kind of human material in the way of education if you only cultivate their interest in the work that you are giving them.

I had the unique experience of having to organize a technical school up in the Schnee-Eiffel of Germany. This school was for soldiers, and there were about five hundred men there. They all worked hard, and had absolutely no diversions outside of the school, although inside of the school we were able