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REPORT.

THE SELECT COMMITTEE to whom the Post Office (London) Railway Bill was referred :

Have examined the allegations of the Bill, and found the same to be true, and have taken evidence thereon, which they have agreed to Report to the House, and have gone through the Bill, and agreed to Report the same without Amendment.

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MR. BALFOUR WAS CALLED TO THE CHAIR.

The Committee deliberated.

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Mr. BRUCE THOMAS was heard in support of the Preamble of the Bill and called evidence.

Mr. E. A. FRANCIS, sworn and examined.

Preamble read the second time.

Question, "That the Preamble is proved," put, and agreed to.

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Ordered. To Report the Bill, without Amendment, to the House together with the Minutes of Evidence.

LIST OF WITNESSES.

Mr. E. A. Francis

Thursday, 17th July, 1924.

PAGE.

2

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MR. BRUCE THOMAS appeared as Counsel on behalf of His Majesty's Postmaster

General.

Mr. T. SEAGER BERRY appears as Agent.

Mr. Bruce Thomas.] This Bill, Sir, which I have the honour of presenting to

the Committee on behalf of His Majesty's Postmaster-General, is promoted to extend the time for the completion of the works authorised by the Post Office (London) Railway Act, 1913. That Act authorised the construction of a deep level Tube Railway from the Paddington District Post Office to the Eastern District Post Office. You will see it is marked on the plan. There are in addition to the terminal stations six other stations, one at the Western District Post Office, Bird Street; another Western District Post Office at Wimpole Street; and then the third one is the Western Central District Office in New Oxford Street; the fourth is at the top of the loop, which is the Mount Pleasant office at Clerkenwell; and the next is at the General Post Office, the King Edward building in St. Martins; the next one you come to is the station at Liverpool Street underneath the London & North Eastern Railway; then the eastern terminus at the Eastern District Post Office. The time which was asked for the completion of those works by the Act of 1913 was five years from the 15th August, 1913, but owing to the intervention of the war it was not possible to get on with the work, and the time for the completion of the work has from time to time been extended by orders which were made under the Special Acts (Extension of Time) Act, 1915, as extended by the War Emergency Laws (Continuance) Act, 1920, and under

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the last of these orders the time for the completion of the work has been extended to the 15th August of this year. You will see, Sir, that it is set out on the memorandum which is printed on the face of the Bill.

Now, Sir, I do not know whether the Committee would desire me to give them any details of the method by which it is intended to work the railway; that seems to me to be a matter which rather goes to the merits of the original proposal, than to the proposal which is at present before this Committee.

Chairman.] As it is unopposed I think it is only necessary to prove the preamble of the Bill as to the extension of time.

Mr. Bruce Thomas.] That being so, I think it is only necessary for me to shortly detail what the present state of the works is, and what progress has been made, and the particular reasons that make it necessary to ask for this extension. Originally it was intended that the main tunnel should be completed by May of 1916, but owing to labour having been withdrawn in consequence of the war that was not possible. The main tunnel was not completed till 1918. Since that date a car shed has been constructed at Mount Pleasant and the shafts there; also the shafts at Liverpool Street, and the conveyors at Paddington Station. At the moment the work which is in hand concerns the construction of the station platforms, and the laying out of permanent way, and those works it is expected will be completed by January,

the

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1925. The work which remains to be put in hand is the main electrical equipment of the railway, and the construction of the conveyers, the lifts at the stations. The main electrical equipment will take about two years after the contract has been placed. In 1920 tenders were invited for the main electrical equipment, and the lowest price tendered was £650,000, the pre-war estimate having been somewhere between £150,000 and £160,000, so that the lowest tender then was just about four times the pre-war price, and because of the high prices the work was not gone on with at that time. Tenders have since been invited, and have now been received and are being examined. I am told the Committee will not think it desirable, as the negotiations with the tenderers have not

been completed, that the figure should be mentioned, but I think that this will be found ultimately that tho putting off of the works has been entirely justified, and it is not likely that the present tenders will exceed the pre-war estimate by more than about 60 per cent. as compared with the figure of 1920, which

[Continued.

was four times the pre-war estimate. The works in connection with the conveyers and lifts at the station will be the subject of a separate contract-that is a smaller matter-and the whole of the work is expected to be completed within two years of the placing of the contract for the main electrical equipment. Under those circumstances, the PostmasterGeneral thinks it is wise that the period of three years should be asked for as from the 15th August next. If the Committee approves of that proposal that will be effected by Clause I of the Bill, which merely enacts that in the 37th section of the Act of 1913 the words "fourteen "should be read for "five years"; years that will mean an extension of three years.

I propose to call Mr. Francis, one of the Assistant Secretaries of the Post Office, who will give evidence in support of the statement that I have made to the Committee.

Chairman.] You can take the evidence as briefly as you like as long as you prove the Preamble.

Mr. EDWARD ALBERT FRANCIS called.

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5. Was the amount that was tendered then about four times greater than the pre-war estimate?-Rather more than that.

6. And was it on account of the high tenders and high prices that it was thought desirable that the work should not be proceeded with at that date?That was the reason.

7. Have tenders now been received for the main electrical equipment?-Yes, tenders have now been received.

8. And, without mentioning the figure, -would it be approximately correct to say that it is not expected that it will exceed

by more than something about 60 per cent. of the pre-war estimate?-That would be correct.

9. With regard to the time required for the completion of the works, is it estimated that after the placing of the contract for the main electrical equipment two years will be required? That is the estimate.

10. And, of course, that contract will not be able to be placed immediately?--Not until we have examined the tenders

and got the necessary authority to proceed.

11. And in order to be on the safe side and not to run the risk of having to trouble Parliament again on this matter, the Postmaster-General asks for an extension of three years from the 15th of August next? That is so.

Mr. Bruce Thomas.] That is the case, Sir.

Chairman.] I have only one or two questions: Are any works in connection with tunnelling still uncompleted-not substantial works? Not substantial works; I think there are minor works connected with the shafts, and that sort of thing, and there is some work which we have undertaken to do for the Great

17 July, 1924.]

Mr. EDWARD ALBERT FRANCIS.

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Western Railway at Paddington, but that is not connected with the tunnelling directly. That is one of the bargains of the original Act

12. You say there is no tunnelling work, but only minor connections?-That is all

Mr. Laverack.

13. Is the whole of the work to be carried out by one contractor, or several? -I do not think I can answer that, because until we have examined the tenders we do not know quite how we shall piace them. What we have to do is to place them so as to get the best advantage. We have called for tenders in sections as well as for the whole, and we shall place them as seems best for the State

14. Have you any idea, or can you give any rough estimate, as to how many mon

might possibly be employed on this particular work?--No, I cannot do that; it is very difficult to do that. There are about 230 men working on the permanent way, but when we get to the electrical equipment it is not possible at all to say how many men will be employed.

Chairman.

15. It does not arise on this extension? -No.

Mr. Laverack.] I was merely asking for information.

(The Witness withdrew.)

Chairman.] The Committee find that the Preamble of the Bill is proved. Have you any amendments to the Bill on Clause 1?

Mr. Bruce Thomas.] There is no amendment, Sir.

(Counsel and Parties withdrew.)

(48754-4) Wt. 8786-3098 750 7/24 H. St. G. 71

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