issued, in print or MS., together with references to the books wherein copies of such registers have appeared. The list of those in print was "extracted by permission from Parish Registers,' privately printed by George W. Marshall, Esq., LL.D., 1891." I need hardly say these lists all relate to past times. Should MR. CLARK desire further details, I should be happy to let him have a complete abstract, with all references. HERBERT B. CLAYTON. 39, Renfrew Road, Lower Kennington Laue. Among the volumes of registers, &c., to be issued during the current year by the Parish Register Society will be one giving a list of all the printed and manuscript copies of parish registers which are in public libraries, &c. Among them MR. P. E. CLARK will find those in or about London. E. A. FRY, Hon. Sec. Parish Register Society. 172, Edmund Street, Birmingham. A list of the churches in London and the suburbs whose registers have been printed may be compiled by referring to 'N. & Q.,' 8th S. vi. 421; vii. 382; viii. 56; ix. 337 ; xi. 443, to which should be added the following St. Martin's-in-the-Fields; Christ Church, Newgate Street; St. Dunstan's, Stepney; and La Patente, Spitalfields, including the French churches of L'Église de St. Jean in St. John Street (registers 1687-1823); L'Église de l'Artillerie in Artillery Street (registers 1691-1786); Petticoat Lane Church, 1691; L'Eglise de l'Hôpital, later l'Église Neuve, in Church Street, 1687-1809; L'Eglise de Wheeler Street (registers 1703-1742), incorporated with La Patente in the latter year; and L'Église de Crispin Street (registers EVERARD HOME COLEMAN. 1693-1716). 71, Brecknock Road. VIRGIL'S EPITAPH (8th S. xi. 188, 329).-The following occurs in the Variorum in Europa Itinerum Delicia' of Nathan Chytræus, editio secunda, 1599, p. 70: "Virgilii sepulchrum non procul inde, supra aditum, sive introitum Cryptæ Puteolanæ, per montem Pausilypum itineris gratiâ actæ, olim conspiciebatur: nunc hi versiculi recens candido marmori insculpti ibidem leguntur. Qui cineres? tumuli hæc vestigia; conditur olim Ille hoc, qui cecinit pascua, rura, duces." Burmann in his 'Anthologia,' Epig. ii. 199, gives these lines, reading, Quæ cineris tumulo hoc vestigia? conditur, olim, &c. He gives, however, the former reading in a note. In "A Picturesque Tour of Italy, from Drawings made in 1816-17 by James Hakewill, Archt" (London, John Murray, 1820), s.v. Tomb of Virgil,' the lines with the reading of Chytræus appear, having the addition "Anno 1554." I have not found any epitaph of Virgil under 'Puteolis' in Inscriptiones Sacrosanctæ Vetustatis' of Petrus Apianus and Barptholomeus Amantius, InROBERT PIERPOINT. golstadii, 1534. 66 son JOHN THURBANE (9th S. v. 109).-He was M.P. for Sandwich 1679-1700. He was admitted to Gray's Inn 30 June, 1651, as and heir of James Thurbane [or Thurbarne], of Sandwich, Kent," and to Wadham College, Oxford, 12 November, 1651; B.A. 29 March, 1655. Called to the bar in 1660, and created His father was M.P. serjeant-at-law 1689. for Sandwich 1656-76; and his grandfather, James Thurbarne, of New Romney, was admitted a student of Gray's Inn 10 February, 1584/5, and sat as M.P. for New Romney 1597-98. A Robert Thurbarne, brother of the last, was M.P. for New Romney in W. D. PINK. 1586-87. John Thurbane (the name is given as Thurbarne in W. Boys's History of Sandwich') was descended from a good family. His ancestors, from 1331, had been eminent in very the Cinque Ports, especially in Hastings, Romney, and Romney Marsh. A Mr. Thurbane, a barrister, was appointed one of the town's counsel 1625; he was probably James (a J.P. for Kent in the reign of James), grandfather of John. His son, also James, was Town Clerk of Sandwich 1643 to 1662, and 1667 to his death. He was one of the barons (or burgesses) in Parliament 1656, 1659, 1660, and 1661, served the office of mayor 1660, and was a supporter of the canopy at the coronation of Charles II. His first wife was named Ellen; they had three children: John, born 5 May, 1636; James, born (and died) July, 1640; and Mary, born January, 1643. James married Ellen died 4 March, 1657. (secondly), 13 November, 1658, Mrs. Bennet Forster, widow, who died 20 September, 1680. James died 23 May, 1688. His son, John Thurbane, was bred to the bar, became an eminent counsel, and was made a serjeantat-law 1689. He represented Sandwich in the two Parliaments of 1679; again in 1681, 1689, 1690; and, 11 April, 1698, was chosen member in the room of Edward Brent, Esq.; and again, the same year, at the "general." He was three times married. By his first wife, Mary (second daughter, and ultimately sole heiress, of Sir Robert Croke, Knt.), he had no issue. By his second, Anne Cutts, sister and heir of John, Lord Cutts, Baron of Gowran, he had an only daughter, Joanna, and at his death (25 January, 1713) bequeathed to her the lordship of Chequers with other estates. Joanna married, first, Col. George Revett, of the Foot Guards (killed at Malplaquet, 1709). They had three sons and one daughter, Mary Joanna Cutts Revett, who, on the death of her brothers, became sole heiress of the family estates. Joanna (the mother) married, secondly, John Russell, Esq., son of Sir John Russell, Bart., a widower, and the estates acquired by John Russell subsequently came to his issue by his first wife, Rebecca, sister of Sir C. Eyre, Knt., of Kew. The Thurbane arms were, Sable, a griffin passant argent. Crest, a griffin's head couped argent. See Berry's Buckinghamshire Genealogies,' 39; Lipscomb's History of Buckinghamshire' (1847), ii. 194; W. Boys's 'History of Sandwich' (1792), 350. HERBERT B. CLAYTON. 39, Renfrew Road, Lower Kennington Lane. : VENN MOUNTFORD (9th S. iv. 497; v. 37).Since sending my former reply I have received from a friend the following information : ""Burke's Landed Gentry,' 'Westropp of Limerick and Clare.' From an old pedigree on vellum this family appears to have been of note in Yorkshire from 1100. The first member who settled in Ireland was Mountiford Westropp, who was appointed Controller of Customs at Limerick in 1660. He was most probably the son of Ralph Westropp, of Cornborough, and nephew of Ellen Westropp, the daughter of William Westropp, and wife of Sir Francis Osbaldiston, Bart., and Attorney-General of Charles I. in Ireland. Mountiford Westropp died in 1698, having purchased estates in Clare. He was succeeded by his son Mountiford, whose daughter Susannah married John Longfield." My brother tells me that there is at present in Dublin a barrister named Mountford Longfield. FRANCESCA. Lord Montford had an only son, the Hon. Henry Bromley, who was ensign, and afterwards lieutenant and captain, in the Royal Berks Militia. He became major and lieutenant-colonel in the 26th Foot. He married Miss Eliza Watts, of Islington. Surely he became Lord Montford, as he was an only son. In one of the Berks parishes I am sure I have seen the marriage of one of the Venns. E. E. COPE. Sulbamstead Park, Berks. EDGETT (9th S. iii. 407; iv. 177; v. 13).-MR. STEVENSON is an old hand at place-names, and it is therefore all the more surprising to find him appending his name to the somewhat rash statements printed at the last reference. To begin with, he argues that h is not dropped in local nomenclature. The truth is that a long list could be compiled of English placenames and surnames which have lost the aspirate. Anfield, a Liverpool suburb, was, 66 = for example, originally Hanging Field; Arras, Yorks, was anciently Herghes Heargas ; and there is little doubt that names like Alston, Ardington, Ardley, Ardwick, Arley, Armsworth, Arrington, Arding, Ogden, Orton, &c, have in many instances, like the pronoun "it," and such common nouns as ostler," "ability," 'arbour," "ermine," abundance," &c., discarded an initial h; while there is a swarm of names where the aspirate has made the easier drop from the second element. Thus we have Greenalgh, Greenall, Aspull, Aspinall, Alsop, Cassop, Repingale, Birdsall, Upsall, Withnell, Thingoe, Grimsoe, Grimsargh, Antill, &c., all of which have cast out the initial h of the last syllable. reference I considered the name Edgett Before I penned the note at the second from every reasonable point of view, and I see nothing to alter in the paragraph. I dismissed, with some reluctance, the idea of connecting the name with "edge" as applied to a land feature, because in English topography the root-meaning of that term when used uncompounded seems to imply partial if not entire inaccessibility. Thus in the H.E.D.,' s.v., 6 and 11, we find the definitions escarpment terminating a plateau," and the brink or verge (of a bank or precipice)," and a quotation showing that in at least one northern county precipices are called "edges" (compare also the Eng. Dial. Dict.,' a steep hill or hillside"). Here I thought I was treading on dangerous ground. That is why I ventured to say that edge-gate would make "no sense." There certainly does not appear to be much sense in a road over a cliff or precipice. What, for instance, does "Brincliffe Edge" (near Sheffield) mean but the edge of Brincliffe? And, moreover, although I could find plenty of Ridgeways, an Edgeway was not discoverable-a significant fact. The compound terms Edgehill and Ridgehill seem to me to be in a somewhat different category. 66 . MR. STEVENSON favours an alternative derivation from an alleged male name Eadgeat, "written Eddiet in Domesday." Can he refer to any Anglo-Saxon document containing Eadgeat? I think not. It strikes me as being a rather improbable combination. I fail to see the wisdom of bringing up assumed verbal forms to explain a name which can be, as I believe, better explained by existing and genuine forms. As a matter of fact, the Eddiet and Eddied of Domesday Book, as the context shows, are female names representing A.-Sax. Eadgyth (Edith), not an imaginary Eadgeat. MR. STEVENSON here appears to have been the unsuspecting victim of an erratic entry in Mr. W. G. Searle's 'Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum.' Another point is that MR. STEVENSON apparently fails to perceive that the Anglo-Saxon personal name Ecg was a poetical term for a sword, and is to be compared with such other Anglo-Saxon weapon- terms and personalname components as Gár (spear), Sceaft (spear or arrow), Seax (dagger), &c. Furthermore, the word "gate" in local names signified a way, road, path, or lane on level ground, as well as a gap or passage in high ground compare Icel. and Swed. gata, gade, Ger. gasse, “street," "lane.” Lastly, I think that America, with its great mixture of populations, is exactly the country where a name is likely to go "etymologically HY. HARRISON. wrong." Dan.-Norw. "DOCTOR A CHRISTIAN NAME (9th S. iv. 518; v. 53). At the latter reference DR. FORSHAW and MR. ROWE both refer to the use of titles as Christian names, the former remarking that such christening schemes suggest a feasible manner of upsetting social distinctions." A popular proprietor of a travelling circus is known throughout Great Britain as "Lord George Sanger," and I remember reading on a poster of his, a few months ago, an account of what purported to be an interview with the Queen after a performance given by command at Windsor. At this interview Her Majesty made amused inquiry as to Mr. Sanger's assumption of title, Mr. Sanger replying that he was SO christened. Sir Squire Bancroft's is another example of a somewhat novel Christian name. "Major" Howe is a well-known London bootmaker; and I have come across several people who would have ordinarily been known as Mr. G. Jones, Mr. M. Smith, &c., who were invariably referred to as General Jones, Major Smith, &c. F. A. RUSSELL. "Major" as a Christian name is somewhat inconvenient, for when his friends speak of Major B. it is sometimes thought that they are referring to a military man. With regard to what is said at the close of DR. FORSHAW'S reply, it may not be inappropriate to say that a clergyman friend told me some years ago that he refused as baptismal names a string of titles which was proffered by a working man as his selection of Christian Some years since, in Virginia, I came across several persons possessing this peculiar Christian name, which, though unusual amongst white people, is common enough with negroes. In the old slave days numbers of plantations had coloured servants bearing this name, many of whom no doubt transmitted it to their children after they were free, and hence the continuation of it as a Christian name to-day amongst their descendants. FREDERICK T. HIBGAME. In some parts of England a seventh son is baptized Doctor, in recognition of the power of healing which it is supposed he will possess. I know instances of Earl, Lord, Squire, and Lord Major being used as Christian names. George Sanger and Squire Bancroft are familiar to us all. ST. SWITHIN. "VINE"=A FLEXIBLE SHOOT (9th S. v. 47). "Vine" is used in this sense in several of our dialects, and in that of this neighbourhood amongst others. Lyte, Gerard, and other of our old herbalists also use the word somewhat loosely, applying it to several different creepers, such as bryony and clematis. White bryony (vitis alba in old writers) has, in fact, from the earliest times been known by the names "vine," ," "wild vine," and "white vine." See C. C. B. the 'H.E.D.,' s.v. 'Bryony.' Epworth. Halliwell explains vine as any trailing plant bearing fruit," but does not give any approximate date. I think, but have not the book at hand to verify, that the word is used for the trailing shoots of the bramble or blackberry in the 'Arcana Fairfaxana, a book of household recipes, &c., of the Fairfax family in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, published by Mawson & Swan, of Newcastle-on-Tyne, a few years ago. J. G. WALLACE-JAMES, M.B. Haddington. Possibly the reason why "in Canada and the United States even the stems of potatoes are potato-vines" may be found in the fact that the original potato, the native sweet-potato, belongs to the convolvulus family, and is “a creeping, rarely twining vine." The mode of speech would be easily transferred to its name-fellow. Gerarde's 'Herball' says of the in 1790. 47, Lansdowne Gardens, S.W. "COMPARISONS ARE ODIOUS" (9th S. iv. 534; v. 46). As a sort of supplement to the interesting note by F. H. in reference to my own, perhaps it may not be irrelevant to give the two instances that I have come across in 'Don Quixote. Both are from the Second Part. In chap. i. the Knight says to the Barber : "Y es posible que vuesa merced no sabe que las comparaciones que se hacen de ingenio á ingenio, de valor á valor, de hermosura á hermosura y de linage á linage son siempre odiosas y mal recibidas?" And in chap. xxiii. we find "Cuente vuesa merced su historia como debe, que ya sabe que toda comparacion es odiosa, y así no hay para que comparar á nadie con nadie." It is curious to find also in 'Don Quixote' a proverb analogous to "Trust in God and keep your powder dry," viz., "A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando," which Jarvis renders with some licence, "Pray devoutly, and hammer on stoutly"; Viardot more closely, "En priant Dieu tu dois donner du maillet." Bath. C. LAWRENCE FORD, B.A. Following MR. CECIL CLARKE's remarks on this phrase let me relate an incident which occurred a few days ago. When I purchased, on behalf of my company, the British rights in a German piece of music, the Berlin publisher wrote, "Please send me a copy when the piece is out of print." He had evidently heard the phrase, and attributed to it exactly the opposite meaning to that which it bears. By the way, my experience is that "O. P." often means that the "collector" has been too lazy to ask for the work, or that the publisher's counter-man has been too lazy to look for it. J. SPENCER CURWEN. OLD AGE AT FIFTY (6th S. vii. 68, 337).— The following passage, extracted from Godfrey Goodman's Fall of Man' (1616), pp. 83-4, well illustrates the Elizabethan " point of view as regards this topic: "As you walke in the streetes, obserue the number of passengers, iudge of their yeeres by their complections; or looke into the Register booke of your Churches, and you shall finde more liuing vnder the age of thirtie, then aboue......If man comes vnto fortie yeeres, then all his acquaintance is among the dead: he scornes to conuerse with young men, to take their counsell or aduice whom he knew boyes without vnderstanding, and are still boyes, in respect of himselfe." On p. 365 he says, "I think that seuentie yeeres then [i. e. in David's time] had the same proportion that fiftie yeeres haue now at this time." Hakewill, in his 'Apologie,' written to refute Goodman's argument, leaves these statements uncontradicted, though mentioning several instances of longevity. RICHARD H. THORNTON. Portland, Oregon. An earlier instance of this saying occurs, it is said, though I have not verified it, in Boiardo's Orlando Innamorato' (c. vi. st. iv. 1, 1), in regard to the comparative merits of Orlando and Rinaldo. Boiardo died in 1496. I believe 'Don Quixote' has "Com-up" due to "filled up"? parisons are offensive," not "odious." ON THE WORD "Up" (9th S. v. 121).-Mr. THOMAS, in his very amusing note, does not mention" fill up," which is Scriptural. Many people would say a thing is "filled up" who would not say it is "full up." Is not "full C. C. B. J. H. MACMICHAEL. "OUT OF PRINT" (9th S. v. 124). MR. CECIL CLARKE is bold. Old traditions and sayings die hard, and some of them will "lif for efer dill the shudgemend day, yes, pless der hearts." "Out of print" is, of course, most ridiculous, but it is generally understood, and "the satisfactory substitute" will be difficult to discover. May I suggest "out MR. RALPH THOMAS does not observe that in all the examples he adduces in justification of the expression "full up," the word "up" is used in qualification of a verb and not of an adjective. It does not follow that because to "fill up" is good idiomatic English, "full up" is good English too. Even in the vulgarism to "wash and brush up," the word "up" is probably employed to indicate that the word "brush" is not intended to denote the instrument, but the fact of its application. "Cash down" is obviously an elliptical expression in which the word "down" qualifies the implied verb "to pay," and does not qualify the word "cash." H. A. HARBEN. Hyde Park, W. width, and 6 in. in depth, hence it will be seen how thick and massive the walls are. Originally it contained the relics of the church, and probably is much older than the present minster itself. It was afterwards used as a safe for deeds. In 1735 some deeds were taken from it bearing the date 1200." The author gives A.D. 705 as the most probable date for the foundation of Wimborne BERNARD P. SCATTERGOOD. Minster. 19, Grove Road, Harrogate. Even worse than a train "slowing up to the platform is the expression to "lull up " in a letter from the Tugela in one of the daily papers of 17 February: "We begin hammerUntil the year 1888 a similar chest to the ing at daybreak, lull up about nine for a one mentioned by MR. NEWPORT was to be while for breakfast, then from noon or there-seen in the church here. It was 8 ft. long and abouts till 1.30 P.M., and on again until near 2 ft. wide, and appeared to have been cut out sundown." of a solid oak log. It was secured by three locks, the respective keys being held by the vicar and two church wardens. There was no information obtainable as to its exact age. It was presented by the vicar and churchwardens Museum, where I believe it is still located. on 29 November, 1888, to the Northampton Upton. R. B. EARLS OF ST. POL (9th S. iv. 169, 293, 386, 444; v. 72).—Of the first family of the Counts of St. Pol I have not met with one earlier than 1030. The last male, Hugh of Ghent, left an only daughter and heiress, Ysabel, married to Gaucher de Chatillon. Gaucher, or (as he is called in the Patent Roll) Waucher, was count in 1212. The last male of this second family was Gui de Chatillon, who died a hostage in England about 1360. His sister and heiress, Mahaut, took the county to her husband, Gui de Luxembourg, Count of Ligny. He, his son, and grandson were successively Counts of St. Pol. Then a Pierre de Ligny succeeded (by gift it is said). His son again was count, and was executed for treason in 1475. This man's son was restored in 1477, and though he had three sons, they died without issue, and his estates and titles went to his daughter's husband, François de Bourbon, Count of Vendôme. I have seen no later trace of a Count of St. Pol, and have always supposed the title was absorbed in the higher dignity. A younger son of the Constable (executed in 1475) was Count of Brienne-how, I know not. Alliances with the King of Jerusalem's family were not wanting, but I see no trace of inheritance passing to the Luxembourgs. The later countship of Brienne died out in 1608. Aston Clinton. T. W. OLD WOODEN CHEST (9th S. v. 88).-The following extract from the Rev. Thos. Perkins's History of Wimborne Minster and Christchurch Priory' (which little book is, curiously enough, reviewed in the very number of N. & Q.' in which this question appeared) will perhaps interest MR. NEWPORT: "In this aisle is also to be seen the relic chest, not formed as chests usually are of planks or slabs fastened together, but hewn out of a solid trunk of oak. The chest is over 6 ft. long, but the cavity inside is not more than 22 in. in length, 9 in. in JOHN T. PAGE. |