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MORAY.-Can any reader give information concerning the Lord Moray, who, according to the play, Charles I,' was once a favourite of the King, but traitorously delivered him into the hands of the Scots after the Battle of Naseby? G. C.

ST. AGNES' EVE.-I should be glad of information regarding the traditions of the Eve of St. Agnes, which I understand is January 20th.

Of course, the two poems, one written by Tennyson, and the other by Keats, bear upon the subject; but I am anxious to know about the legends surrounding the anniversary.

HENRY G. BRENGLE.

TRYTHALL FAMILY.-What is known of the old Cornish family of Trythall, and has a pedigree ever been compiled? I understand that there is now only one family extant bearing this surname. Is this so? JAMES SETON-ANDERSON. 39, Carlisle Road, Hove, Sussex.

Replies.

SEVENTH DAY BAPTISTS OF MILL YARD, WHITECHAPEL.

(12 S. xii. 26).

At the above reference "Mc." gives an account of the Mill Yard congregation of Baptists, in which I have no interest and which I believe to be correct in so far as it concerns Mill Yard. For, as he himself points out, the "memorial" presented to the Charity Commissioners by this congregation in Feb., 1855, explicitly asserted that this congregation was founded in Mill Yard in 1693 "--that is rather more than four years after the Revolution. But I the rest of Mc.'s statements about a supposed history of this congregation before 1693.

66

[Information upon this subject will be found must impeach the whole of

at 3 S. iii, 402. 165; 7 S. ix. 488, x. 27, 77; 10 S. iv. 449, vii. 311; 11 S. v. 47, 112, 156, 275. The last set of references is concerned with the folk-lore behind Keats's poem. Chambers's Book of Days' might also be consulted. The St. Anges' Eve Customs are to be referred to her being patron of young girls, not to her story].

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TABER (TABOR) FAMILY.—I am interested to know how long the family of Taber has been settled in Essex, and the origin of the

name. There exists a variant of the name in the same county known as Tabor.

H. JOHNSTONE-SMITH,

Capt.
BIRTH AND DEATH DATES WANTED.--Who
can give me birth and death years of:
Rev. James Ridley ("Sir Charles Morrell.")
Menella Smedley ("S. M.")
Lady Fenn ("Solomon Lovechild.")
John Harris ("Sirrahnio.")
Rev. Stephen Weston ("S. W.")
Dr. Sam. Newington ("Sigma.")

James Love ("Scribblerus Maximus.")
John W. Bannister ("Settler.")

Peter Beckford ("Sportsman of Berkshire.")
Mary Linskill ("Stephen Yorke.")
Fredk. K. Hunt (Student at Law.")
Spencer L. Hughes ("Sub Rosa.")
Thomas Scot (S. R. A. I.")

Tarry Town, N.Y.

WILLIAM ABBATT.

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evidence that there ever was a congregation In the first place, just as there is r.o with John James as pastor," so also there is no contemporary evidence that James was. an anabaptist (as the term then ran) at all, He was urging. much less a Sabbatarian. the his hearers to rise in rebellion seventh day," upon which he was arrested, simply because that seventh day was anniversary of the execution of the regicides. Hacker and Axtell. Anyone who is familiar with the tracts of the times will be aware that large numbers of Quakers and other persons who objected to "heathen names for the days of the week, then described them by numbers only, instead of giving them their conventional names. Similarly with regard to the months, March was the "first month," and so on.

Probably, therefore, James had delivered a seditious speech on every day of the anniversaries of the trials and executions of the regicides. Certain it is, as the following transcript proves, that he delivered such a speech upon Thursday, Oct. 10. (Why not, therefore, term him a fifth day baptist "? Which would be absurd!)

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The information of John Crabb, in which he incorrectly describes John James "William " James, is as follows. This information is insufficiently summarised on p. 110 of the Calendar of State Papers, Domestic Series, for 1661-1662 :

October the 11th, 1661. The information of John Crabb. Hee saith, that yesterday he was at a meeting in Dukes Place, within a dark entry, three paire of staires high, where there was only about twenty mett; wch were all unknown with him; the speaker was one William James; they prayed that God would deliver them from ye Redd scarlett whore yt halth baithed herselfe in ye blood of ye Saints, that God would give the murderers blood to drinke, and that God would take of (sic) our loue from ye world, and not to value their Trades or

to doe God's work.

estates, but that they should lay them doune Hee saith yt in his sermon, hee told them they were as a woman wth child, yt hath gone from quarter to quarter for nowe more then a yeare; they were now to desire God, yt they might bring forth a people for the doeing of his worke; though it had pleased God to deliver his precious Saints into ye hands of murderers, as Harrison, Scot, Carrey [i.e., Carew. Harrison and Carew, the regicides, were both fifth monarchy men, Scot was a debaucheel and others; yet God had nevertheless increased their numbers, for their blood was like seede throwne into the ground yt had increased them from 60 to a 100 and from a 100 to a 1000. They did pray yt God would carry on & hasten the worke, and putt it into their hearts who should be their chief man to carry on their designe

John Crabb

Teste, John Willshire John Crabb further saith yt the said Willm. James said the time was when King and bishops were taken away, & for the sinnes of these yt carried on their private ends, God suffered them to be brought in againe; hee prayed yt God would put an Axe into ye hand of some of his servants to hewe downe root and branch of King and Bishopps, that hath formerly been a stincke in ve nostrills of ye whole Nation. Hee said yt nothing was wanting but ye spiritt of God, to give notice when they should go on with their work, and praied for yt spiritt: the said Crabb;

Saith yt these meetings is for to pray for ve spiritt of directions, how and when to proceed; and yt they have of purpose a praying people as well as an acting people.

John Crabb

Teste, John Willshire Duke's Place was in Whitechapel, just outside Aldgate (see Wheatley's London '), and, obviously, Bulstake (or Bull) Alley is referred to as the "dark entry." The inference that this congregation of about 20 then continued to exist, as a separate entity, until 1693, is untenable. Moreover, con

of

temporary evidence does not end here. Charles II's repeated efforts in favour toleration have never received their just due, and his Declaration of Indulgence brought him into conflict with Parliament,.

all over

after he had licensed conventicles licenses are to be found in Mr. Frank Bate's. the kingdom. Full particulars of these. scholarly book, The Declaration of Indulgence, 1672,' published in 1908. It is clear from these that there was no congregation either in Bulstake Alley or in Mill Yard in 1672.

Again, in December, 1683, a list of conventicles in and around London was printed by Nathaniel Thompson, addressed to the gentle hint for their suppression. This also Lord Mayor (Sir William Pritchard) as a is innocent of any sort of congregation in either of the two places in question, the only conventicle, described as Millenarian,' being one in Southwark, Horse ly down," the minister being. Wheeler."

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Those who, like the communicants of fifty years ago, repeat the brutal speech falsely asserted to have been uttered by Charles II to James's wife, the arrant nonsense about the sudden deaths of Hodgkins, Mould, Stanfield and Browne, or the scandalous lie in the tract, that the executioner asked twenty pounds for remitting part of the sentence, are doing what the forgers of the "Narrative wished. They are representing the. condemnation of a traitor as the judicial murder of a non-conformist, and stirring up hate of a King who has been very much misjudged. Charles II was never cruel.

Charles II followed the precedent set in the case of Venner's men, other than Venner himself and Hodgkin. John James did not undergo the "barbarous penalty for high treason. His execution was "" with mercy,' as the term then ran, that is to say, he was. hanged until he was dead, before his body was beheaded.

Those readers who

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side of the Atlantic, and with such facts as
I could obtain in libraries there of his tragic
end here. I shall be very glad if J. G. M
can furnish any particulars as to his origin,
parentage and family connections. I have
found a number of his name in Devon,
around Bideford, in local records, including
several Thomases. It may be that in the
various contemporary works cited by
J. G. M. there is a reference to his birth-
place or antecedents.
CHARLES E. BANKS.

Narrative " in question was a fraud his somewhat erratic career on the other should consider the difficulties in the way of an unauthorised person taking down such a mass of matter in shorthand. Then le them compare the Narrative' with the 'Speeches and Prayers' of the regicides executed in the previous year, and note the similar wording and arrangement-even to the text on the title page (" He by it being dead yet speaketh "), and they will not be long in coming to the conclusion that both were by the same hand. And, as to the Speeches and Prayers,' four men were tried for printing and publishing them at the commencement of 1664. Probably the same men were concerned in the Narrative,' but no separate count was made for that, as the King refused to allow trial for high treason, and only permitted a prosecution for misdemeanour.

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Be it known to the Reader, that this book was not, as it pretends to be, a true account of the words, written or spoken, of dying men, but a meer forgery and imposture, fathered upon those who were executed, but contrived by the traytors that 'scaped; as deeming it their safest way to publish the designs of the living in the words of the dead, and the most conducing to their project of destroying the present King to persuade the multitude into a good opinion of the murder of the last. To conclude. Notorious it is that the whole libel is a cheat, the letters and speeches a counterfeit, &c.

Mutatis mutandis, exactly the same words may be applied to the Narrative' of John James.

J. G. M. THOMAS VENNER, FIFTH MONARCHY LEADER (12 S xii. 54. v.s. 'Execution of a Non-conformist Minister '). The article referred to with its bibliography has been very interesting to me, as I wrote a short sketch of Venner's career many years ago

ical is in the British Museum.

(about 1882, I think) which was published in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register of that date. A set of this periodIt may not be unknown to J. G. M. that Venner was an early emigrant to Massachusetts (163 where he carried on his trade of wine cooper in Salem, later removing to Boston in the same State. My article deals with

Strand Palace Hotel.

DISCE UT SEMPER VICTURUS,
VIVE UT CRAS MORITURUS.

at

(10 S .ix. 49, 113). Since supplying
the second reference, several examples of the
maxim contained in the second line, though
otherwise expressed, I have noted the follow-
ing on p. 101 of Jakob Werner's Lateinische
Sprichwörter und Sinnsprüche des Mittel-
alters,' (Heidelberg, 1912):

Vive vacans viciis, tamquam sis cras
moriturus,
Intendens studiis, quasi numquam sis

moriturus.

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though there are other Liberties beyond. Though he speaks (ii. 80) of "the West and by North Suburbe,' he does not attempt any enumeration of " Suburbes," and from his statement that the suburbs about London hath bin also mightily increased with buildings," it may perhaps be inferred that he did not understand the word as having a technical meaning, but as including all the built-over spaces which were continually spreading out from the site of the ancient city. JOHN MAGRATH.

The Priory of St. Bartholomew is described in numerous charters and deeds, dating from its foundation down to the reign of Queen Elizabeth, as being "in Westsmithfield in Suburbiis Londin' " or ' in the Suburbs of London."

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WILLIAM BARNARD.

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PANTON BETEW (12 S. xii. 53).-'Not much, I fear, can be added to J. T. Smith's information about Panton Betew, who died, I believe, in 1799, the year in which his collection was sold. He probably had much more to do with Gainsborough than Smith's account suggests, for there are at the British Museum no fewer that five prints after pastoral pictures by the artist described engraved from canvases in the possession of Mr. Panton Betew." That he was, not a bachelor we know, because his name appears in a list, published in 1889 by Sir George Armitage, of some of the marriages at the notorious St. George's Chapel, Mayfair. The list, which is in one of the Harleian Society's volumes, contains some notable marriages, as Sir George points out in the preface. Among them is that of Gainsborough to Margaret Burr, on July 15, 1746; and it was Gainsborough, perhaps, who recommended the Chapel to his friend Betew, who was married there to Sarah Broome of Marylebone, on February 23, 23, 1754. It may be worth mentionnng that Thomas Chippendale, the famous cabinet-maker, was also married at the Chapel, in 1748.

When Betew's property was sold by his executors on June 13, 1799, he was described, not as a dealer, but as. an amateur of the fine arts, well known among the collectors." His own collection included drawings and prints, described as valuable, some pictures, and models by Rysbrach. The sale was held at No. 5, Fivefield Row, Chelsea, probably the house mentioned by Smith.

WILLIAM T. WHITLEY.

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MAN OF WAX." (12 S. xi. 489, 518; xii. 16). In the St. William Window at. York, two of the panels represent a sick man in bed being measured for a wax leg, and the man recovered presenting the wax model at the shrine of the saint. A cross pole either projecting from, or suspended near, the shrine has similar offerings hanging from it, including a head, a hand, an arm and a heart. For valuable particulars_concerning wax models of this kind see Dr. James Fowler's learned description of the window, in Yorkshire Archeological Journal, 1886.

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JOHN A. KNOWLES.

THE NORTH SEA: BRITISH OCEAN." (12 S. xii. 52).—With reference to the aboveI am able only to consult such maps as I have in my possession.

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In Johnston's Historical Atlas,' 1911, the map showing The Roman Empire in the 4th Century' gives "Germanicum Mare," and this continues until the fall of the Empire. From Europe in the time of Charles the Great, A.D 814,' the 'North Sea" is given, and this continues, though "German Ocean " is shown on the map of the Lancaster period, and "North Sea or German Ocean in the Stuart period. Colbeck's Public Schools' Historical Atlas,' 1905, agrees with the former atlas except that " German Ocean" is shown in connection with the campaigns of Edward III in France. Gardiner's School Atlas of English History' seems to be somewhat the

same.

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Bartholomew's 'Literary and Historical Atlas of Europe' (Everyman's Library) gives Occidentalis Oceanus " in map of 814, and then "North Sea" for other maps. The 'Atlas Classique' (Schrader and Gallouedec, published by Hachette et Cie., Paris, 1909), gives "Océan Germanique on the two maps, Gaule Ancienne'. and Les Barbares dans l'Empire Romain;' and "Mer du Nord ' on maps 'Empire des Arabes and Empire de Charlemange;' and this continues. In the map of 'Les Barbares' "La Manche " appears as Océan Britannique." I do not remember having

seen this before.

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The Atlas de Géographie Historique Histoire du Moyen Age (Librarie Payot & Cie, Lausanne, 1906) gives "Océan Germanique on the map showing Migrations et Etablissement des Barbares' and Mer du Nord" from A.D. 527-565 onwards.

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I know that my father's mother (b. 1798, d. 1880) was very patriotic; she shows this on the map of Europe which she worked when at a private school at Wyken, Bridgenorth, in 1803; for she put very plainly "BRITISH OCEAN,' I think this is the only time I have ever seen this. It would be very interesting to know if it was usual at that period. When I commenced geography, nearly sixty years ago, I was taught that the proper title was "North Sea or German Ocean," but I think that now we may very properly call it the "British Ocean."

HERBERT SOUTHAM.

JAMES JOHNSON (12 S. xii. 53).—James Johnson, afterwards bishop of Worcester, must have given his birthplace as Melford,

Suffolk, when he was matriculated from Christ Church, 5 June, 1724, aged 18. The form in which the matriculation entries are given by Foster in 'Alumni Oxonienses,' e.g. "Johnson James, s. James of Melford, Suffolk, cler." does not make this quite plain, though in the introduction, Vol. I, p. viii he rightly informs the reader that the information given in the entry is parentage, birthplace and age of [at] admission of every Oxford man.' His note, which states that the residence of his father " is "given in the matriculation entry " is a mistake. Only the quality (nob. arm. gen. pleb. cler. etc.), not the residence, of the father is given.

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JOHN R. MAGRATH.

the

His mother was Anne, daughter and co-heiress of Thomas Cuthbert of Wickford, Essex. He was never married. G. F. R. B. will find all that is known of his family in an article by Walter Money, Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archæological Society, viii, part 2. G. R. Y. R.

THE THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY-FIVE CHILDREN (12 S. xi. 351, 372, 417, 518; xii. 36). Supplementary to PROF. ROLLIN'S article, and the notes in his' Pepysian Garland,' pp. 124 ff., are the following noteworthy discussions of the story:-Kr. Nyrop,

En kuriositet i kunstkammeret,' Copenhagen, Thiele, 1905, 45 pp., which is zeitung, 1905, col. 3009), and A. de Cock, reviewed by K. Reuschel (Deutsche Literatur

Volkssage, Volksgeloof en Volksgebruik,' Antwerp, Janssens, pp. 9-18, Zooveel Kinderen als Dagen in het Jaar.' See further Wallonia, viii. 53; Revuc des traditions populaires, x. 663.

SAGITTARIUS.

GRAFFITI OF SHIPS IN OLD CHURCHES 12 S. xi. 52).-Such graffiti were not confined to churches. On the walls of the guardroom of the Westgate, Winchester, there are two interesting engravings of ships carved by prisoners when the Westgate was used as a prison. One of these, carved about 1624, as is proved by another device obviously by the same hand so dated, represents an early Norman ship of single mast, still steered by the steer- or star-board, and I think a free copy of that on the first seal of Southamp

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