LORDS AND MEMBERS PRESENT, AND MINUTES OF PRO- The Poor Law Bill [H.L.] is then considered. Sir Frederick Liddell, к.C.B., and Mr. H. J. Comyns are called in aud examined. (See Minutes of Evidence.) The Title and Preamble of the Bill are read and postponed. The Memorandum on the Bill is then considered. It is moved that the amendments recommended therein be adopted as and when the clauses affected are considered by the Committee. It is moved, page 6, line 3, to leave out "the Secretary of State" and insert "a Secretary of State." On question whether the word "the" shall stand part of the Clause, resolved in the affirmative (Contents 6: E. Lucan, L. Monkswell, L. Askwith, L. Warrington, Mr. Neville, Sir Henry Slesser.-Not On question, Contents 7 (E. Lucan, L. Monkswell, L. Gorell, L. Warring- The Clause is agreed to. Clauses 13 to 33 inclusive are read and agreed to. The further consideration of the Bill is postponed. Ordered,--That the Committee be adjourned to Wednesday next at The Order of Adjournment is read. The Proceedings of Wednesday last are read. The Poor Law Bill [H.L.] is again considered. Sir Frederick Liddell, K.C.B., and Mr. H. J. Comyns are called in and Clause 9 is again considered. Sir Frederick Liddell is heard to propose an amendment suggested by After deliberation, it is moved, page 5, lines 31 and 39, after The same is agreed to. The Clause, as amended, is agreed to. Clause 34 is read and agreed to. Clause 35 is read. The Lord Gorell is heard to move an amendment. After deliberation the Committee decide that Sir Frederick Liddell The further consideration of the Clause is postponed. Clause 36 is read. After deliberation the Clause is agreed to. Clauses 37 and 38 are read and agreed to. Clause 39 is read. It is moved, page 20, line 41, to leave out from "1824 " to the end of The same is agreed to. The Clause, as amended, is agreed to. Clauses 40, 41, 42, 43 and 44 are read and agreed to. Clause 45 is read. After deliberation the Clause is agreed to. Clauses 46 to 59 inclusive are read and agreed to. Clause 60 is read. After deliberation as to the inconsistency of Sub-sections (1) and (2) regarding the introduction of intoxicating liquors into Workhouses, it is moved that the Clause be agreed to, subject to amendments to be drafted by Sir Frederick Liddell. The further consideration of the Clause is postponed. Clauses 61 to 72 inclusive are read and agreed to. Clause 73 is read. After deliberation, it is moved, page 36, line 22, to leave out "place to which a," and line 23, to leave out "consisting of two or more parishes is situated." The proposed amendments are agreed to. The Clause, as amended, is agreed to. Clauses 74 to 83 inclusive are read and agreed to. Clause 84 is read. It is moved, page 42, line 22, after "blind" to insert "children." The same is agreed to. The Clause, as amended, is agreed to. Clauses 85 to 99 inclusive are read and agreed to. Ordered, That the Committee be adjourned to Wednesday next at 11.30 o'clock. The Order of Adjournment is read. The Proceedings of Wednesday last are read. The Poor Law Bill [H.L.] is again considered. Sir Frederick Liddell, K.C.B., and Mr. H. J. Comyns are called in and examined. (See Minutes of Evidence.) Clauses 101 and 102 are read, and after deliberation, agreed to. Clauses 103 to 106 inclusive are read and agreed to. Clause 107 is read. It is moved to transpose subsection (5) to follow subsection (2). 60288 b It is moved, page 54, line 22, to leave out "the same" and insert “in the same parish." The same is agreed to. The Clause, as amended, is agreed to. Clause 108 is read and agreed to. Clause 109 is read. After deliberation, it is moved, page 55, line 32, that an amendment be drafted by Sir Frederick Liddell of the word "maiden." The same is agreed to. The further consideration of the Clause is postponed. Clauses 110 to 113 inclusive are read and agreed to. The further consideration of the Bill and of the Clauses already considered is postponed. The Draft of the Report, being a Report on the Poor Law Bill [H.L.] (see page vi), is laid before the Committee. The same is agreed to. Ordered, That the Lord in the Chair do make the Report to the House of Lords, and that Mr. Reginald Neville do make the Report to the House of Commons. Ordered,-That the Committee be adjourned. Sir FREDERICK LIDDELL, K.C.B., and Mr. H. J. COMYNS, having been called in, are examined as follows: Chairman.] What shall we arrange about our sittings? Anybody who has seen the Bill will realise, I imagine, that the Government do not expect this Bill to be completed this Session. I think the idea is that we should get on as far as we can and that the Committee should be re-appointed next Session to complete it. Mr. Hudson.] May I venture to ask why we should be doing this at all? I understand the Government propose to bring in a measure next Session drastically to amend and alter the Poor Law, and it seems rather a waste for us to consolidate the existing Poor Law. If we are going next Session, in the House, drastically to alter it, a good deal of our work on this Bill will be useless. Chairman.] I do not think that that is the view that the Government take and, if I may say so, it is not the view that I take of the Bill. I think that if no amending Bill is ever passed it will be a great and valuable work from the point of view of consolidation to have got this. I think anybody who reads the Bill will see how very desirable it is to consolidate these things, but I believe from the point of view of the Government they think that they have great difficulty in framing their amending Bill unless they have got the Acts consolidated first. Sir Henry Slesser.] I understand, from looking closely at the Bill, that the only possible alteration which could take place would be in Part I, and, as I understand the intention of the Government that has been expressed in the House of 60288 Commons, the only change would be the authority which is to continue to administer the Poor Law as such, and the whole of this draft, apart from Part I deals with the Poor Law alone; so that whatever happens it would only be Part I which would need Amendment; and the need for consolidation would continue with regard to the rest of the measure in any event. Mr. Neville.] I venture to think that judging by what the Minister of Health has said on Part II there will be a definite alteration of substance. Witness (Sir Frederick Liddell).] The view from the Minister of Health's position is this. He is proposing to transfer the powers of the Guardians to County Councils, and he thinks that he cannot transfer the powers to new authorities without the new authorities having some idea of what their powers are. Their powers are at present spread over a hundred Acts and the new authorities will have to study a hundred Acts and pick out from those Acts what their powers are. The country and the new authorities should have the opportunity of seeing what the law really is. The only part which will be scrapped will be Part I if the contemplated change takes place. The powers will remain but will be transferred to another authority. Sir Henry Slesser. 1. Then you agree substantially, as I understand, with what I said. You agree that Part I is the only part which will have alteration?-Yes; but the powers will be transferred. A |