Mr. Bidder.] May it please you, Sir. I appear to promote the Mercantile Marine Memorial Bill which is promoted by the Commission of the Imperial War Graves.

The object of the Bill is to legalise the erection of a Memorial in the garden on Tower Hill to the men of the Mercantile Marine who gave their lives in the War. I need say nothing whatever about the fitness, and, indeed, the duty of fulfilling that object. The services of the Mercantile Marine to the country during the War were of a nature that entitled them to the highest recognition that can be given, and on that point I need say nothing else.

The form of the Memorial that it is proposed to erect is shown in this picture (exhibiting same) and consists as you see of an arcade which shall be sheathed in bronze on which shall be the name of every man who gave his life during the War in the Mercantile Marine. When those names are there there will then be memorials erected to all the men who gave their lives at sea, as the Royal Navy already has its memorials at various points on the coast. The Memorial was prepared by Sir Edwin Lutyens, and has the approval of all those concerned, and I do not suppose you wish me to go in any great detail into its structure or dimensions, but the reason why this Bill is promoted is that it is to stand upon a garden on Tower Hill. The plans for this

Memorial were ready last year and, as vou yourself know very well, Sir, it was proposed to proceed last year with a Bi for its erection, but certain private rights it appeared might be interfered with and the requisite notices had not then had time to be given, therefore the Bill is now before you and it is hoped that Parliament will give its consent. In order to explain why this procedure is necessary I must very lightly sketch the history of Tower Hill, only however for the last 150 or 130 years. I am not going to take you back to William the Conqueror. In 1797 an Act was passed which was one of the earliest Improvement Acts which gave a body of Trustees created under the Act powers of lighting and improving and watching and cleansing an area including that garden on Tower Hill and power to raise a rate, and by a section of that Act, the plans of which included the garden that you see there, the frontagers who were rated for the purposes of the Act were also given a right of access to the garden. Now, Sir, various changes in the local administration have happened since 1797. and the powers of those Trustees have been handed first to the Whitechapel Board of Works, and then to the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney, but the body of Trustees has somehow survived those changes and still exists and administers the garden and has a certain revenue for that purpose, a revenue that arises no longer from the rates but from an annual

12 April, 1927.]

payment which the Underground Railway, who has a tunnel underneath the garden, pay, and the frontagers still have keys and still have access to the garden. Therefore it proved there was a body of the public whose rights, very technically indeed, but still whose rights would be interfered with, and therefore for that reason this Bill is promoted after due notices have been given. I may say there is not the slightest opposition. The Trustees and the various bodies concerned do not in any way oppose the passing of the Bill. Certain conditions have been insisted upon which I will mention to you, and the promoters of the Bill have agreed to those conditions, but it comes before you as а measure requiring indeed the as-ent of Parliament, but without any person objecting in any way to the steps proposed to be taken.

As to the people who are concerned, there are a number of bodies that are interested in that piece of land. In the first case it is Crown land, therefore the Commissioners of Woods and Forests are concerned, and have given their consent which can be produced to you. In the second case, as I have explained, there are these Trustees and on certain undertakings, or a certain understanding with the promoters, they too have given their consent. That understanding really refers to the necessity of keeping up the building and of keeping the garden private in respect of the side of the Memorial that will now form an edge of the garden.

The Underground Railway are also concerned, inasmuch as a very sma!!

[Continued.

corner of the Memorial will be built over the tunnel which goes underneath the garden, and in respect of which tunnel, as I have said, a yearly payment is made to the Trustees; but there again the Underground Railway Company has only required certain protection, which has been arrived at, and in the Filled Bill you will see that a clause has been inserted to meet their requirements. I think that is before you, Sir.

Finally, of course, the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney, who are really the successors to most of the powers of the original Trustees, have passed a resolution in every way agreeing with and backing up the promotion of this scheme.

With regard to the power of the Commissioners to promote this Bill and to do this act there can be no doubt about that. By the fifth section of the Charter, the first paragraph and the fifth sub-head, one of their powers for which they are founded is to acquire and hold land for the purpose of providing or erecting permanent memorials elsewhere than in such cemeteries as aforesaid in honour of any officers or men of Our said forces who shall have fallen in the present War." With regard to their power to promote a Bill, that also is provided for a little later subject to the consent of their President, the Prince of Wales. consent has been obtained.

That

I do not think there is any other point that I need raise at the moment, and i will ask Major-General Sir Fabian Ware, the permanent Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Imperial War Graves Commission, just to corroborate what I have said.

1. You are the Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Imperial War Graves Commission?--Yes, I am.

2. You have heard what I said about the powers of the Commission as laid down in the Charter. Do you confirm that? Yes, I can confirm that.

3. Have you the consent of the Prince of Wales to make this application?-We have the consent of the Prince of Wales as President.

4. When this is completed that will mean that the name of every man so far

as is known lost at sea in the service of the country will be recorded and perpetuated. Is that so? That will mean that the names of all those who have no known graves will be perpetuated. By the time it is finished those who have graves will have their head stones up.

5. But the result will be that every man so far as is known will be commemorated?-Every man of the R.N.V.R. and the Merchant Service.

6. The design, I think, has the general approval of the Fine Arts Commission?

[Continued.

12 April, 1927.]

-It has the approval of the Fine Arts Commission.

Mr. Bidder.] I do not know if you want Sir Fabian to describe the actual building in any more detail?

Chairman.] No.

Mr. Bidder.

7. (To the Witness.) You have been in touch with the organisations of officers and men of the Sea Services?-We were in consultation with every existing organisation at the time.

8. You have their approval?-We have their approval.

9. I think you have a list, if the Chairman wants it, of the organisations that you have consulted?-I have, Sir.

10. Then the entire cost of the Memorial and of maintaining it will be borne by the Commission's funds?-It is borne by the Commission's funds, that is to say, by all the participating Governments in proportion to the numbers of their dead in the Great War-the Governments of the United Kingdom and the Dominions.

11. You have, of course, particulars of that if the Committee desire it?-Yes.

12. The ground area, I think, is a small one. Is it about 200 square yards? -About 200 square yards.

13. The public will have access to the Memorial directly without going into the garden? They will not go into the garden.

14. The privacy of the garden will be maintained?-Entirely.

15. Then you have the consent of the Trustees of the garden?-We have their consent as far as they are able to give it.

16. I mean as far as they can give it. They are not opposing it, and the Commissioners of Crown lands--?—They also have given their consent in the same way.

17. And the First Commissioner of Works. None of these people can authorise it, or you would not be coming here with the Bill? That you know better than I do.

The Works has

18. These various bodies are all in some way connected with the garden. First Commissioner of approved? He has, Sir.

19. And the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney? On the terms you know of.

20. Did the Metropolitan Borough of Stepney make any terms?-I beg your pardon. I mean they have approved.

21. They have all entirely approved?-There has been extraordinary unanimity of approval.

22. It is the Metropolitan Railway and the Metropolitan District Railway which you meant when you said they had given their approval on terms?-Yes.

23. That is in respect of the foundations in their relation to the Company? -That is so.

24. You were advised that there is no

body which has power, as a matter of fact, to give consent for doing this except Parliament itself?-To give its actual authority, and that is why we are asking for the Bill.

Colonel Gretton.] Could you tell us whether the formality of depositing the plan and book of reference containing the names of owners, lessees and occupiers has been complied with?

Mr. Bidder.] That has all been done.

Colonel Gretton.

25. Could you tell us what is expected to be the cost of the Memorial?-The cost will be somewhere up to £25,000. The will be 12,000 names inscribed on the Memorial, and that will be about the cost of the whole Memorial.

26. That will include the site, the building, the inscription and replacing the railings as laid down in the Bill? That includes everything.

Chairman.

27. I am afraid all the questions I should have asked I have heard answered too many times?-I have no doubt, Sir.