And we have a great body of young men and women in this country that have these particular skills. And the development of those skills is essential to giving us a supply of technicians that will meet the defense needs of this country in case of a dark hour of crisis.

Therefore, I again say that I think the burden of proof is on those that want to continue the Bush amendment. The chairman of the full committee, shares my point of view, as I have already indicated, that we ought to give favorable consideration to its elimination. And I shall at least be inclined to do so.

Thank you very much.

Mr. BROWNLOW. Thank you so much, sir.

Senator YARBOROUGH. No questions.

Senator CASE. No questions.

Senator MORSE. I want the record to show Mr. Brownlow has associated with him Paul Hutchins, his assistant.

Our next witness will be Dr. William B. Logan, president and professor of distributive education, Ohio State University, accompanied by Dr. M. W. Mobley, executive secretary.

We are delighted to have both of you gentlemen present. Proceed in your own way.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM B. LOGAN, PH. D., PRESIDENT, AMERICAN VOCATIONAL ASSOCIATION, AND PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION AND DIRECTOR OF DISTRIBUTIVE EDUCATION INSTITUTES AT OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY, COLUMBUS, OHIO; ACCOMPANIED BY M. D. MOBLEY, PH. D., EXECUTIVE SECRETARY

Mr. LOGAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, my name is William B. Logan. I am professor of education and director of distributive education institutes at Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio. As president of the American Vocational Association, I represent 30,000 vocational teachers, officials, school board members, and others who are interested in the development and improvement of practical education in this country.

Dr. M. D. Mobley is the executive secretary of the association. We appreciate the opportunity to appear before this subcommittee to report on the effectiveness of the National Defense Education Act of 1958.

Mr. Chairman, in view of the preceding testimony, if it is agreeable with the chairman, I would like to submit this testimony for its appearance in the record and make just a few statements in deference to time?

Senator MORSE. You may do so. The full statement will be inserted in the record.

The witness may proceed in his own way to summarize it or supplement it.

Mr. LOGAN. Thank you, sir.

It would seem redundant to give this full testimony, in view of the statements made by the preceding people who have appeared before this subcommittee, and in view of the statement made by the chairman himself in regard to the Bush amendment and the other statements in the act that we are including in the statement.

In the statement there is a report of the American Vocational Association House of Delegates, in support of this revision, a resolution by the State Directors of Vocational Education, a report of a study of the Legislative Reference Library of the Library of Congress in which there was a preponderance of the States voting in favor of amending section 303 (a)(3), a statement made, and referred to during the day, by the then Senator John F. Kennedy, a statement made by consultants appointed by Secretary Flemming.

Now, I would call the attention of the chairman and the members of the committee to the summarization of a study which has been made within the past week.

A little over a week ago, I believe exactly a week ago today, there was placed in the mail a letter including a questionnaire to several thousand leaders of the American Vocational Association, primarily the leaders over the country.

Only 31 of the 664 replies thus received answered yes to the question:

Do you favor continuance of section 303 (a) (3), the so-called Bush amendment, as presently worded in the existing law?

And we believe that a return of 664 replies within 1 week's time after the letter was mailed is a very high response.

In light of the facts I have presented, Mr. Chairman, the American Vocational Association joins other individuals and groups who have testified and who will testify in support of an appropriate amendment to section 303 (a)(3) that might be classed as technical or clarifying, so that the language of this section will be more nearly the same as that found in section 801, which sets forth the findings and purposes of the act, and section 307 (d) which defines "area vocational education programs."

(The prepared statement of William B. Logan follows:)

STATEMENT BY WILLIAM B. LOGAN, PH. D., PRESIDENT, AMERICAN VOCATIONAL

ASSOCIATION

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is William B. Logan. I am professor of education and director of distributive education institutes at Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio. As president of the American Vocational Association, I represent 30,000 vocational teachers, officials, school board members, and others who are interested in the development and improvement of practical education in this country. Dr. M. D. Mobley is the executive secretary of the association.

We appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee to report on the effectiveness of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 and to inform you about some changes which will make this act more effective in the future. My testimony deals with Senate bill 1726.

The National Defense Education Act of 1958 has greatly stimulated the development of area vocational programs in several States in which previously there were no such programs and it has stimulated an increase in the number of schools and number of offerings in the schools in States which already have area Vocational schools. This law, gentlemen, has greatly contributed to the youth of our Nation who now have skills and knowledge which they otherwise might not have without the area vocational programs. These area vocational programs have contributed not only to the youth of our land but also to the economic growth of our country.

It would be superfluous to explain to you the economic values of education in terms of raising the income level of people and the resultant improvement of living standards and other desired outcomes. Many of these are direct results of vocational education.

We have made major strides in connection with the area vocational programs under title VIII of the National Defense Education Act of 1958. As a result of our observations, we wholeheartedly endorse the plan to extend the authorization for appropriations for area vocational programs for 3 additional years and to eliminate the limitation of the amount ($15 million) that can be appropriated. However, virtually all members of the American Vocational Association strongly favor a broader base for the use of funds than is provided in the existing law. The language in section 303(a)(3) in title VIII is exceedingly narrow. It needs to be relaxed in order to provide a more effective instrument for use of the funds. Senate bill 1726 does not contain any proposed amendment to section 303 (a) (3) (the so-called Bush amendment) which limits the use of funds for training highly skilled technicians in occupations requiring scientific knowledge necessary for national defense. This portion of the act (sec. 303(a)(3)) reads as follows: * funds appropriated under section 301 of this title shall be used exclusively for the training of individuals designed to fit them for useful employment as highly skilled technicians in recognized occupations requiring scientific knowledge, as determined by the State board for such State, in fields necessary for the national defense."

At the last meeting (December 8, 1960) of the AVA House of Delegates in Los Angeles (the controlling body of the American Vocational Association), the following resolution dealing with amendments to title VIII of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 was unanimously approved :

"Therefore be it

"Resolved, That the American Vocational Association at the appropriate time request Congress to amend the provisions of the area vocational education title of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 in such a manner that funds may be used for developing area programs of vocational education in all recognized occupations essential to our Nation's economic well-being."

The State directors of vocational education during the 1960 Los Angeles Convention approved the following resolution regarding an amendment to title VIII of the National Defense Education Act of 1958:

"Therefore be it

"Resolved, That the National Association of State Directors of Vocational Education urge AVA at the appropriate time to request Congress to amend the provisions of the area vocational education title of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 in such manner that funds can be used for developing area programs of vocational education in all recognized technical and highly skilled occupations essential to our Nation's economic well-being."

Last fall the Legislative Reference Service of the Library of Congress asked the American Vocational Association to assist with a study of the administrative problems encountered by State vocational officials in the administration of title VIII of the National Defense Education Act of 1958. The following are some of the questions asked in a questionnaire and replies by State directors of vocational education:

"Does the provision limiting the use of funds for the training of 'highly skilled technicians' create any serious administrative problems?" Twentythree States answered "yes" and 25 States answered "no."

"Does the provision limiting use of funds for the training in 'occupations necessary to the national defense' create any serious administrative promlems'?" Twenty-eight States answered "yes" and 23 States answered "no." "Do you think that title VIII should be amended to delete the provision limiting the use of funds to highly skilled technicians' "? Thirty-three States answered "yes" and 19 States answered "no."

"Do you thing that title VIII should be amended to delete the provisions limiting the use of funds to 'occupations necessary to the national defense?" Thirty-eight States answered "yes" and 13 States answered "no." During his campaign for the Presidency of the United States, the then Senator John F. Kennedy wrote a letter under date of October 24, 1960, that was sent to all the more than 10,000 vocational agricultural teachers of the Nation. The last paragraph of his letter reads as follows:

"The Bush amendment (sec. 303 (a) (3)) of title VIII of the National Defense Education Act which severely limits the use of funds for vocational education under that title, was offered at the request of the present administration. I favor the repeal of the Bush amendment so that funds for 'area vocational education programs' may be used for all phases of vocational education."

During late 1960 the then Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, the Honorable Arthur S. Flemming, appointed some 20 consultants to study the National Defense Education Act of 1958 and to make recommendations concerning its improvement and extension. The following is the complete list of consultants:

James E. Allen, Jr., commissioner of education, State of New York.

Louis T. Benezet, president, the Colorado College.

Arthur Bestor, professor of history, University of Illinois,

J. Douglas Brown, dean of the faculty, Princeton University.

James B. Conant, 588 Fifth Avenue, New York, N.Y.

John E. Cosgrove, assistant director of education, American Federation of Labor & Congress of Industrial Organizations.

Willis E. Dugan, professor of educational psychology, University of Minnesota. J. W. Edgar, commissioner of education, State of Texas.

Lynn A. Emerson, 8907 Montgomery Avenue, Chevy Chase, Md.

Martin Essex, superintendent of schools, Akron (Ohio) public schools.

Marion B. Folsom, director, Eastman Kodak Co.

Alfred M. Gruenther, president, the American National Red Cross.

The Right Reverend Frederick G. Hochwalt, executive secretary, the National Catholic Educational Association.

Devereux C. Josephs, 51 Madison Avenue, New York, N. Y.

R. M. Luniansky, dean of the Graduate School and Provost, Tulane University. Wheeler McMillen, vice president, Farm Journal, Inc.

Lorimer D. Milton, president, Citizens Trust Co., Atlanta, Ga.

Anne G. Pannell, president, Sweet Briar College.

A. L. Sachar, president, Brandeis University.

Ruth A. Stout, assistant secretary for professional relations, Kansas State Teachers Association.

E. W. Strong, vice chancellor, the University of California.

The report of the consultants was released on January 12, 1961. It carried the following recommendations regarding title VIII area vocational programs. "The consultants recommend:

"1. That title VIII be continued, but that the Congress authorize a broader definition of technician occupations necessary to the national defense. That the effect of title VIII be to supplement and strenthen existing vocational education, apprenticeship training, and retraining programs.

"2. That a representative national consultative committee be established to determine the total needs for vocational education (including the needs of public and private tax-exempt schools and institutions which provide training for technician occupations) and to recommend to the Congress legislation for modifying and strengthening vocational education to meet the manpower needs in the years ahead."

The report of the consultants contains a separate statement by John E. Cosgrove representing AFL-CIO, which reads as follows:

"While generally concurring in the consultants' recommendations on "Title VIII: Area Vocational Education Programs,' I would phrase the first recommendation so as to specifically recommend that the Congress remove the restrictive language of section 303 (a) (3) which limits the use of funds appropriated exclusively for the training of individuals for useful employment as 'highly skilled technicians'. The funds appropriated under title VIII should not be so restricted, but should be available for use in carrying out the purpose of title VIII for training of technicians or skilled workers as set forth in the statement of findings and purpose, section 801 of this title. In addition, with regard to the consultants' recommendation No. 2, I would prefer that the word 'modifying' be replaced with the word 'extending"."

In order to get the most up-to-the-minute information on the attitude of vocational leaders throughout the Nation, the Washington office of the AVA sent out a questionnaire a little over a week ago today. Several thousand of the top State and local vocational leaders were asked to express their opinion regarding the language in section 303 (a) (3) of title VII of the National Defense Education Act of 1958.

As of noon yesterday (May 12, 1961), a total of 664 replies to the questionnaire had been received. Scores of replies are being received with every delivery of mail. Only 31 of the 664 thus far received answered "yes" to the question, "Do you favor continuance of section 303 (a) (3) (the so-called Bush amendment) as presently worded in the existing law?" In other words, 633 want section 303 (a) (3) amended and only 31 want no amendment to this section.

In light of the facts I have presented, Mr. Chairman, the American Vocational Association joins other individuals and groups who have testified and who will testify in support of an appropriate amendment to section 303 (a) (3), that might be classed as technical or clarifying, so that the language of this section 303 (a) (3) will be more nearly the same as that found in section 801, which sets forth the findings and purposes of the act, and section 307 (d), which defines "area vocational education programs."

Senator MORSE. I am very glad to have this statement in behalf of the vocational schools themselves. It is very much needed in this record.

As I indicated a moment ago, I have a feeling that vocational schools are getting a very bad deal, so to speak, in regard to the application of the program to date, and I hope that will be remedied.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate Dr. Logan's full statement-I have been scanning through it-and his cooperation with the committee in condensing it here in the interests of time.

Dr. Logan gave very strong testimony in favor of the cold war GI bill, which hearings we hope to complete as soon as these hearings

are over.

Dr. Logan, do you think this program alone, without the GI bill, will get the job done as to these millions of young veterans who are unemployed?

veterans.

Mr. LOGAN. I think we need the complete appropriation to help the The cold war veterans are in dire need of assistance. Senator YARBOROUGH. And in making that statement, you are doubtless considering the fact that of all the unemployed at this time, onethird are under 25 years of age, and an actual surveys shows State by State 10 to 13 percent of these unemployed total are veterans? Mr. LOGAN. Yes, sir.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Thank you.

Senator MORSE. Senator Case?

Senator CASE. Dr. Logan, I thought I heard you say that former Secretary Flemming made a statement on this point. I do not see it in your statement.

I wonder if you have it separate from this?

Mr. LOGAN. I am sorry. Secretary Flemming, at that time Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, appointed a committee of 20 consultants. I was in error if I said that Secretary Flemming had made a statement.

Senator CASE. I appreciate that.

Mr. LOGAN. Yes, sir.

Senator MORSE. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your testi

mony.

The next witness is Dr. Robert E. Van Deusen, Washington secretary of the Division of Public Affairs, National Lutheran Council. Your testimony on S. 1021 I remember with great pleasure. I remember the pleasant colloquy we carried on, on that, which was very helpful. In fact, I think you should know that in various parts of the country I have quoted certain excerpts from that testimony, because I thought you had done such an excellent job on it.

We are glad to welcome you again to this committee.