passed S. 819, but the loyalty oath still is in there, and no one is against that.

We certainly appreciate the other things that you have done, par ticularly trying to establish a Veterans' Affairs Committee in the Sen ate, and we realize that we cannot always agree on every issue that is brought before the Senate.

Senator MORSE. Well, on behalf of Senator Yarborough and my self-and I am sure Senator Randolph will quickly join us-I want to thank you for the help you have been to us on the proposal to extend the GI bill, because here, as I said this morning, this is the most democratic scholarship proposal yet made in America. If we could get that GI bill extended so that the people, the young men and women getting out of the service now would have the educational benefits of that GI bill, we would be doing a lot to take care of this body of students we talked about this morning.

Let this record show-and these are interrelated, and that is why I take half a minute to stress it-that the GI bill, as far as educational benefits are concerned, is not costing American taxpayers a dollar. You say, "Well, prove it, Mr. Senator." I let the Veterans' Administration prove it, and here it is. I will give you the result.

The Veterans' Administration has presented evidence that has not been successfully refuted, and, in my judgment, cannot be. They have made an analysis of the income that the veterans who have been the beneficiaries of the GI bill now make, and then they project that in relationship to what their income would have been if they had not gone ahead and gotten their college degrees a body of reliable statistical information on that matter is large and clear. Then they point out that the increase in the income of these veterans over what they otherwise would have been able to earn if they had not had the benefit of the GI bill has returned to the American treasury in increased tax dollars more than the cost of the program. If it did not, I would still be for it.

Do not misunderstand me, because I still think you have a duty to do what you can to protect the maximum intellectual potential of this country. But here is a program that will pay for itself.

Now, I happen to think that all these scholarship programs and similar programs within the bill now under consideration will do the same thing.

So, when we are fighting for this kind of legislation, we are fighting for legislation that returns to the American taxpayer over the years more money than the American taxpayer puts in it.

I would like to argue it not only from the moral standpoint, not only from the defense standpoint, but from the economic standpoint. I use the Yarborough bill on the GI bill extension proposal really to buttress my support of this legislation. Excuse the speech, but I wanted to point this up in the record.

Mr. STOVER. I agree with those remarks 100 percent.
Senator MORSE. Senator Randolph ?

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman-I am weighing my words, even before they are spoken. I have the feeling that probably no Senator has contributed more intellectual integrity to the processes of legislative consideration and enactment of law than has the Senator from Oregon. Very few Senators have had more influence upon their col

leagues in the formulation of opinion on vital issues than the chairman of the Subcommittee on Education presiding at this important hearing.

And so the substance of my compliment is a very sincere belief.

But the record will now indicate that I am in disagreement with the position which Senator Morse has expressed with reference to the disclaimer clause, the affidavit, as it relates to a double affirmation by the youth who will be participating in such a program-a double expression, as it were, joining the affidavit with the oath.

I have felt that if one or both of my sons, one now 22 and one 26, the older having been in the Armed Forces of our country, were to share in such a governmental assistance as contemplated in this act, that if he were pledged by this so-called double-barreled question, I would like to feel that it would be not a hardship, but a privilege, for him to make a statement in the affirmative on these matters.

I am not one for unthinking adherence to straitjacketing or to the outmoded appearance of formula, or meaningless form. But I sense that for a young man there is a certain amount of strengthening, which is not necessary from the standpoint of the mere drafting of the bill, as important as the language may be but the expression on the part of the young when response is set forth in the manner in which I have indicated would be positive rather than negative.

My position today is as it was in the 86th Congress. As a member of the Labor and Public Welfare Committee, when the measure came to us from the subcommittee, my decision on this problem was made a matter of record. And on July 23, 1959, when by a vote of 49 to 42 S. 819 was recommitted to this committee, I voted with the majority of the Members of the Senate.

Here we find the issue carefully and closely drawn. Only a few votes separated these positions, which would indicate that a considerable body of the Senate is to a degree, perhaps almost equally divided on this question.

So it is understandable today that the chairman of this subcommittee, I think, in frankness and in fairness has made the comment which he has made. He states, in essence, a deserved praise for the contribution the Veterans of Foreign Wars has given on so many important legislative proposals. He is both frank and fair with you on this particular provision inherent in the pending legislation.

My thoughts, I hope, are set down in an objective fashion. I do not want to appear as a flag waver. I would disclaim at all times any evidence of that shortcoming. I voted for the creation of the UnAmerican Activities Committee when I was in the U.S. House of Representatives, and some dear friends in the House disagreed with me on that proposition. I voted to make the committee permanent. I voted on all occasions to provide funds with which the committee was to function.

These statements present a further indication, perhaps, of my thinking in these matters.

We are all, I am sure, committed to a common purpose, and that is to have the processes of legislation as they are finally enacted into

law reflect, if not the full position of an individual member, the composite desire of the Congress to strengthen our Nation, to strengthen our educational processes, and to strengthen the basic concepts in which we all believe.

I may want to revise what is said here, not because of what has been said. The essence of what I have said shall remain, but I may have used an unhappy choice of words in one or two instances, and I might wish to modify or at least to clarify the conviction which

I have set forth.

Thank you, Mr. Stover.

Senator MORSE. I wish to say, Mr. Stover, that I hope that the Senator from West Virginia will not change any of the words, particularly those words of flattery to the chairman. I think he has given you the assurance that I already have given you that your proposal will be very carefully and objectively considered by this committee. There is no flattery on my lips whatsoever, I want to say, as the Senator from Texas would assure you, also, that the Senator from West Virginia, on issue after issue, has made one statesman-like contribution after another to the work of this committee.

We have just come through, may I say, a very difficult period in this committee as we have made our final report to the full committee, and now the full committee to the Senate, on 1021, the general Federal aid-to-education bill. Time and time again the Senator from West Virginia made contributions in the debate that made it possible for us to win point after point in closed executive sessions and resulted in no small measure resulted in helping us get a bill to the full committee and from the full committee to the Senate.

He has outlined very clearly, I think, the two points of view on this matter. He could not have spoken a greater truth when he said our objectives are the same, but we disagree to some degree on the procedure to be followed in reaching a common objective. The Senator from Texas.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I want to commend the Veterans of Foreign Wars for supporting this legislation and for supporting the GI bill, also. With 1.3 million veterans, all who served overseas and in hostile areas during wartime, it is the largest veterans' organization in America which has endorsed and supports the GI bill. So far as I know, it is the largest veterans' organization to support this legislation. In fact, the original Defense Education Act and the present one.

I know, certainly, it has been the largest organization to be in the forefront of the fight for the GI bill, and has already testified for it. I am grateful for the fact that the able chairman of this subcommittee and the distinguished Senator from West Virginia are both cosponsors of that legislation, we hope to conclude the hearings before the end of this month on it.

As Mr. Stover knows, and as you two distinguished Senators know as cosponsors, it furnishes educational opportunities for 4.25 million veterans of the cold war.

I want to add this. I have been recording a television program this week which is to be used later this week in a considerable number of areas in the country. One of the participants on that panel was Dr. Bernreuter, dean of admissions of Pennsylvania State. He

brought up the National Defense Education Act, that he is strongly for it, but pointed out that in his capacity as dean of admissions of Penn State, he had found it too limited, it put a straitjacket on veterans-he had many veterans coming in who wanted to take other courses, but it had to be in this limited field of mathematics, foreign languages or science, and those are the only fields, and one other, in which loans could be obtained. There are so many fields of educational effort not covered by the National Defense Education Act. which is slanted at a narrow field of proficiency in American education, and attempts to lift our educational standards in these very critical areas.

Now, the GI bill is broader, as the chairman adverted to, as Dr. Bernreuter pointed out. It lets every veteran receive that training. Only 20 percent had ever been in college before they entered service. Only about 8 percent are college graduates-they will go on with their graduate education. But of those that take schooling, about 50 percent will take technical or on-the-job training, some in the type of institutions described by Senator Smith this morning, in community colleges, technological education, not leading to degrees, but to high technical endeavor, a field in which we are in very short supply in this country.

I want to congratulate the VFW for their support in both of these vital pieces of legislation.

I point out, as Dr. Bernreuter did, that the passage of this act will not do away with the necessity for the GI bill, and the passage of the GI bill will not do away with the necessity of this act. Both are very badly needed, and even with both passed, we will not have made up the lag in higher education in America.

I am glad this organization has the vision to see that.

Now, insofar as this requirement of either the disclaimer affidavit or loyalty oath, I feel that if that is necessary to get the bill, we will get the bill; if it is necessary to take it out to get the bill, we will take it out. I am for education. I would not want to see a debate over that stop the bill at any stage. I feel in that respect, as President Lincoln stated at one time during the war, when he was urged specifically to issue an emancipation proclamation-he said, "If I can save the Union with emancipation, I will do it; if I can save the Union without emancipation, I will do it-my primary and first objective is to save the Union."

Mr. Chairman, my primary objective is to get these educational bills.

Senator MORSE. Thank you very much, Mr. Stover,

Mr. STOVER. Thank you very much for the kind remarks you have all made in behalf of the VFW, and we will continue to try to do all we can to improve the defense and the education and security of this Nation. Thank you very much.

Senator MORSE. I am pleased to call to the witness chair J. Arnold Feldman, executive director of the American Veterans Committee. Mr. Feldman, we are delighted to have you with us. You may proceed in your own way, within the limitations of the time.

STATEMENT OF J. ARNOLD FELDMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR O THE AMERICAN VETERANS COMMITTEE (AVC)

Mr. FELDMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(The prepared statement of Mr. Feldman follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF J. ARNOLD FELDMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
AMERICAN VETERANS COMMITTEE

I am J. Arnold Feldman, executive director of the American Veteran Committee.

We are always pleased to appear before the Senate Subcommittee on Educa tion headed by the distinguished senior Senator from Oregon. This committe and its outstanding members have a record of achievement in which they ca take genuine pride.

The American Veterans Committee supports S. 1726, the bill introduced by Senator Lister Hill which would be known as the National Defense Education Act Amendments of 1961.

Title II is one of the most important features of this bill. We certainly favor making permanent the student loan program and increasing the ceiling on Federal contributions from $250,000 to $500,000.

There are other matters contained in title II on which our convention nex week will probably take action. AVC's position can be determined only by the membership. These do not relate to the proposed amendments but to some pro visions in the present act.

We are unequivocally in accord with the proposed amendments to title IV. We believe that strengthening our educational system on all levels is important. However, nothing is more important than strengthening our graduate programs. The shortages of adequate teaching personnel in our colleges and universities, I believe, are going to grow more acute in the next 5 years.

AVC endorses the extension of the program of assistance for guidance, counseling, and testing to include the seventh and eighth grades.

We also endorse the expansion of the foreign language program in title VI to include English and the expansion of title III to include physical fitness. We hope that the program would also be expanded in the future to include the social sciences. We believe that the programs for the natural sciences, modern foreign languages, and teaching, are essential to the life of our democracy. We also believe that the social sciences are essential. Trained people in our Foreign Service, State and local officials who understand modern urban problems, school board officials with a historical view of the necessary developments of our educational system, and others are also essential to the strength of our Nation.

The position of the American Veterans Committee in favor of the proposed amendment of title X, section 1001 (f), is spelled out in our platform, which calls for repeal of the requirement that individual recipients of payments or loans must execute an affidavit disclaiming subversive beliefs and affiliations.

I admire the faith that the proponents of retaining this requirement have in those who hold subversive beliefs and affiliations. From experience in fighting Communists and Fascists we know that these people would not hesitate falsely to give an oath or affirmation.

AVC favors this amendment because we believe that the present requirement, which singles out college students, is not only insulting but unwise. Such requirements are generally advocated by those who in their zeal to protect our way of life would, in fact, subvert it.

We recommend that Federal funds under the act can only be used in those institutions which do not discriminate because of race.

We believe that our greatest sources of strength lie in the development of our human resources, our great physical resources, the strengthening of our educational system at all levels, and the constant promotion of the ideas and ideals expressed by our traditions of human dignity and freedom. We believe that S. 1726 would make a substantial contribution to our national strength, if enacted. Thank you.

Mr. FELDMAN. I am J. Arnold Feldman, executive director of the American Veterans Committee.

Before I get into what I have prepared, I would like to say we also endorse the peacetime GI bill, as Senator Yarborough undoubtedly realizes.