on worlds, has not the glory with which God has crowned -the glory of volition WILL. Hence

his creature, man

it is that he is at

made.

once so wonderfully and so fearfully Then, oh! man! turn to God. Turn, not as a star turns in the heavens- not as the moon turns to the sun of its light—not as the sun itself turns to the great Sun of suns-but as a man — - as a free man- turn to

God and live.

Why does my opponent persist in insinuating that I believe that God will after awhile turn "fiend," or "savage," and "force some of his creatures into an endless hell," contrary to the feelings, desires and purpose of their lives? Have I said any such thing? Have I intimated it? Certainly not. I do not believe it. We know sinners can suffer, can be in hell, and God remain just as he is. God will never change. No sinner will suffer in this life or in the next because God is not love, mercy, and goodness. And if any one shall ever find himself beyond the possibility of reconciliation and salvation, it will not be because of any change in God, or Christ, or the angels, or heaven, or love, or goodness. We shall see more about this when we come to discuss the next proposition. The gentleman can discuss the present question fairly, or if he choose he can go on making distorted and ridiculous statements. "The wise shall understand." I wish only a fair and an honorable discussion. [Time expired.

[MR. MANFORD'S FOURTH SPEECH.]

My friend says I spoke lightly of endless hell-torments. No sir. It grieves my heart, that so many good men and women think so wickedly of the God of heaven as

to represent him as the eternal tormenter of countless millions, made in his own adorable image. They do not, They have eyes, but they They have ears, but they

however, I trust, sin willfully. do not see the glory of God. do not hear the angelic song, "Glory to God in the highest." They have understanding, but they know little of the love of God. It is an awful thing to represent him "who is good unto all" as crushing beneath his feet his own offspring, world without end. And to make such persons reflect on the enormity of the charge they bring against their Creator, I speak of hell-torments in pretty plain English. I do not whitewash hell inside or outside. I do not put masks on its devils, or hide them in the dark. I do not smother its fires with cologne, or scent its brimstone with "balm of a thousand flowers." I talk about this hell just as the creeds talk about it; just as standard Orthodox authors talk about it. I want to awaken people to the horrors of their creed. When they see it as it is, they will hate, loathe, abhor it, and banish it from their creeds, their heads, and their hearts. I am glad to see my worthy friend so uneasy, when I talk thus about hell. That is a hopeful sign. He is getting his eyes, ears, heart and head open to see, hear, feel and understand its horrors and abominations. He tries hard to hide its infamy, and make it appear respectable, and sort of comfortable. But by the help of God, before this discussion closes, I will expose its horrors, its injustice, and its cruelty. It is worse than a "theological bug-bear," or "a grand farce." It is too dreadful to be laughed at, or spoken of lightly. Belief in it causes too many tears to flow, too many hearts to ache, and sends too many of our brothers and sisters to early graves. We should weep rather than

laugh that so many good men and women cherish so heart-rending a creed. May God have mercy on them, and save them from the slavish fear of hell. It is true, the Bible talks about hells, and ere this discussion closes I hope to present the Bible doctrine of hell; also shall try to gratify my friend relative to the meaning of eternal. These, and all other important matters, relating to the questions before us, will be attended to at the proper time.

I did not say that destructionism is "generally advocated in his journals," but that it has advocates in them; and my friend knows that to be correct; and some of those advocates are members of his denomination. He knows that also to be correct. I am pleased to find that he discards Mr. Campbell's notion, that we come from the hands of our Creator, sinful. If Mr. C. is right, not an infant can be saved. They are born sinful, live sinful, die sinful—so Mr. Campbell teaches; and if those who "leave this world sinful" cannot be saved, as Mr. S. asserts, not a child can be saved. Mr. Campbell and Mr. Sweeney together, send all children to hell.

I said, "salvation is deliverance from the imperfections of earth," and that is the truth. What is the good man saved from, if not from the imperfections of this world? The Bible reveals no evils that have not their root here. I know this fact cuts my friend's theory right and left. He evidently thinks, that the evils we are subject to did not have their origin in this world, or in man, but came from hell; that the devil hatched them there, and brought them from the infernal regions, and sowed them broadcast all over this earth, and salvation is deliverance from satanic principles, satanic influence, and satanic rule.

The gentleman is wrong, and St. Paul is right, for he says, "Sin is the work of the flesh," and St. James says, "Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust," -not the devil's. And doubtless, some of the imperfections of earth will adhere to all, more or less, when they change worlds. Neither being buried in water, or in the grave, sanctifies the soul. It is the grace of God that redeems, now and forever.

And right here my earnest friend is puzzled. He cannot understand how a person dying unsanctified can be saved. He really does not seem to know much about salvation. He is looking for salvation from an outward hell, and from an outward devil; and he cannot comprehend how a person after being pitched into hell, and gobbled up by the devil, can get out of that place, or his clutches. It would likely be a difficult matter, if his satanic majesty is as good a jailor as is represented. But this is all wrong. We make our own devils, our own hells, and salvation is from those inward evils, and God has given us ability and grace to make our salvation sure. Now, suppose a man leaves this world sinful, as all do more or less, why cannot he be enlightened by divine wisdom, and sanctified by divine grace? He will be the same man he was before his body was dropped in the grave. He will still be in the image of God, and a child of God. As he will have ntellect, what will prevent him from believing in God, believing in Jesus? and as he will possess moral qualities, what will prevent his loving and obeying the truth? Saul, on the road to Damascus, with blood on his hands, and hate in his soul, was converted instantly by one glimpse of the risen Jesus, and one word from his lips. And will not all the glory of

the upper world redeem a soul? What a philosophy and theology that must be that says nay! The truth is, according to the popular theology, we shall be shipped directly to hell, and given over instantly to the devil, for fear, it would seem, that the realities of heaven might make a good impression. I cannot see, but regeneration. will be effected infinitely easier on the golden shore than in this world, if opportunity is given. Here we are mortal, there immortal; here chained to bodily appetites and passions, there freed from them; here there are not only temptations within, but without, there we shall be removed from them; here we are in the material world, there in the spirit-world; here we stand near the grave, there nearer God's throne. With all these advantages how will it happen that not a man will become better in the spirit-world? I want to know why this will be so. The laboring oar here is with my friend. All have the grace and ability to walk in wisdom's ways in this world. God now invites, commands, entreats, all to be wise unto salvation, and why is all this reversed as soon as we enter the land of Immortality? Let him give the reason for it. Let him prove it is so. God invites all, till they draw their last breath, to come. This he admits. And why, instantly after, is the invitation all turned to curses? I demand the evidence of this, and the reason for so sudden a chang this was the first time this doctrine was proclaimed, the people would be struck dumb. But they have heard it preached so long they do not generally see its inconsistencies, injustice and cruelty. But thank God, the Christian world is pondering this subject, and a brighter day is dawning.

But then, Mr. S. thinks, the will of man stands, like a